Messages

10:1 isn't far off acceptable compression ratio for turbo/supercharging.
The Porsche Cayenne turbo has a CR of 9.5:1 (the base aspirated model is around 12:1)

I'm thinking my resbuild will end up around 9:1, leaving some room for charging later if i want (possibly with an intercooler though)

What is this 'barn' everyone waffles on about??

Quoting: EDGE

the car vs bike argument is more bitterly fueled than the pc vs mac or even ford vs chevvy......

all i know is, when i did my cbt, admittedly, its only very basic training, they dont teach you to go up the side of traffic...

for thos of you that have taken a full bike test.... did you filter up the traffic in your test ?

Nope, because it is sort of a little naughty, sort of. However, *proper* bikers will very rarely (or never) go on the 'inside' of traffic, and only filter inbetween lanes or on the outside. The nearside is for pedal bikes (though scooters ignore that, but they are all generally incompetent death wishes on wheels ... )

Quoting: Big Mouse

bikes filtering through traffic is one of my all time pet hates - the traffic is stopped for a reason yet theres always a bike trying to squeeze through a gap an inch wider than his handlebars

As a biker and car driver I'd have to disagreee with that, that's the whole point of riding a bike through traffic!!

Yep I voted for Boris!!!

Yeah I know how it feels! My two-year engine rebuild (what have I been doing?!?!) still isn't finished, though I'm very close. Admittiedly I haven't done a great deal the last few weeks but I've been busy. I think I've finally figured out the dizzy is one tooth out which is why the timing was off. Once that's fixed, there's just a little bit of machining left to do to a bracket and a few vaccuum pipes and I SHOULD be there!

Quoting: HardRockCamaro

As far as I know (and this isn't thus gospel) the engine will be using its cold start map and running open loop until the coolant temperature hits a preset value (140-50deg?) when it will switch to closed loop.

Hi Mike, yes I think that's normal for most 02 driven fuel injection systems. I have read though that early big block truck systems such as mine run an open-loop idle regardless of temperature. Not sure though!

Just as a sanity check: Are you setting the base timing with the computer control of the distributor disabled? (ie the wire unplugged)

Yep we've fired up the engine as normal, and then disconnected the tan/black EST wire which removes computer control of the distributor to attempt to set the timing. Keeps dying though!

Quoting: Gator

that would do my head in engines should be ajusted with a 99p screwdriver not a £500 laptop

hope you sort it guv

Welcome to the world of fuel injection! I'm not completely out of ideas yet, still hopeful

I thought I'd convey my attempts so far to tune my rebuilt big block with Edelbrock multi-point TBI based intake manifold. The ONLY result I'm aiming for so far is to get a reliable idle with a reasonalble AFR (Air Fuel Ratio), and be able to set the distributor base timing. So far I've had variable results ...

The new engine has bigger than stock injectors (to cope and supply with higher top end horsepower), so I have assumed I need to alter the ECU tune/map to at the bare minimum stop the idle from running way too rich with the bigger injectors. As such I have also installed a modified ECU with accompanying Moates Ostrich (V1) real-time emulator connected to my laptop running TunerPro. Also connected to the laptop and TunerPro is a USB ALDL diagnostic cable, and another USB cable to the WideBandCommander with wide band oxygen sensor installed, monitored by the supplied WideBand software.



As I said ealier, all me and my able assistant Dr Frank are trying to do at this stage is get a reasonable idle so we can finalise the distrubtor timing. I am using (an internet sourced version) of the AZFT standard bin as a starting point. I would rather use the Edelbrock chip that came with the Edelbrock multi point intake manifold coversion (which itself was a replacement for the stock 1987 ACLP chip) as a starting point, but I have never been able to get a 'good' reading of it. I obtained a duplicate chip from Edelbrock, and removed the chip holder from one of the two identical Edelbrock chips and put it in my Pocket Programmer (USB edition) chip reader/writer, but I've been able to read and re-verify the chip successflly. Also, what I have read seems to have some odd values when viewed using TunerPro. Therefore I decided to start with AZFT for tuning the new engine.

For the initial engine 20 minute break-in fireup, I didn't want to have extra computers involved, and didn't need idle as I was after 2000 rpm for 20 minutes to break in the cam. So I used the existing unmodified ECU (with Edelbrock chip) for the break in. As expected this ran way too rich because of the bigger injectors. Once break in was complete, I switched to the modified 'real-time emulation' ECU, with mixed results ...

The connectivity of the Ostritch input and ALDL output isn't as reliable as I would like. Every time I attempt to tune the truck in a particular session (e.g. an afternoon), the same pattern occurs. After turning the ignition to position 2 (run, but nor crank yet) I upload the AZFT bin to the Ostrich, verify, and emulate. This always works ok. Interestingly, if try to connect ALDL output before this, ALDL doesn't give any output until the bin is uploaded. Then I test the ALDL before cranking by pressing the gas pedal, and checking the ALDL dash of TunerPro registers the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) change. This works ok too.

The ONLY variable I am altering in TunerPro is 'BPW Constant' in an attempt to get the ECU closer to reality with the bigger injectors. The truck will usually fire up and run, although the fuelling and ignition seems to be all over the place. In the first minute or so of running the ALDL dash gives all the info expected, TPS, MAP, RPM, 02 (narrowband) voltage, O2 cross counts. Also, if I alter the BPW constant and update immediately in TunerPro while emulating and keeping the throttle constant, the engine note certainly does change, indicating the emulating is working. Without fail though, after some time (not sure how long, a 2 or 5 minutes maybe) the ALDL stops working, and emulation changes seem to have no effect, even if I kill the engine, swutch back to off and to 2 again, restart TunerPro etc. While writing this post, it has occured to me that the only reason it all works again if I leave it all and come back the next day is because we disconnect the battery leads whenever we're finished at the end of the day. Maybe that is resetting something in the modified ECU.

Anyway, with the above setup, we can usually get the engine running, and idling eventually after it has warmed up. I must note that the running characterstic of the engine seem wildly different when cold and warm. There's no chance of it idling when cold, and then starting when hot seems difficult. Actually, the enginr running seems all over the place, sometimes it seems to be running and sounding great, other times it feels like it's missing cylinders, and the timing is all over the place. Using a timing light, we've had everthing from 60 degrees out, down to almost the 4 degrees it shoudle be at. Admittiedly, we keep having to move the distributor because in one position it will start but not idle, and another will idle but not start. The WideBandCommander I have installed is also showing massive swings in the fuel mixture all over the place.

I have also installed a MSD 6A ignition, but I disconnected it pretty quickly and changed back to stock to simplyfy setting the timing with a timing light. I'm assuming the modified ECU with Ostrich is working correctly, as it the engine does fire up with it connected, but really it's another variable that I'm hoping is 100% ok but of course I don't really know.

After a couple of now failed attempts trying to set the timing at idle, I'm open to suggestions and helpful hints. My current plan is to strip as much back to basics and remove as many possible red herrings as possible. I'm going to:

Change Oil and Filter again (probably a lot of petrol in it now)
Change the plugs again
Fit the new plug leads I have (been using a pre-rebuild set so far)
Readjust the roller rockers again
Put the dash back in again
Put the old ECU back in again AND swap the new injectors out and put the old smaller back ones in again

This, HOPEFULLY, will let me get the truck idling enough so I can set the timing and clamp it down to remove that as a variable. Then I'll put the bigger injectors back in and the modified ECU.

Even if this works, I still am a bit in the dark about getting any further with the engine tuning as it seems a bit all over the place. Hopefully with settled timing, tuning the igntion and fuelling will be easier, although the 5 minutes only of emulation control and ALDL output is a worry. Does anyone know if the AZFT is a good or reasonable place to start? Also, I think it might have open-loop idle (no use of o2 sensor at idle, run from tables only), but I don't know for sure, anyone?

Any and all comments, suggestions and help welcome!!!

You can buy them here ...

http://www.plateflipper.com/index.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.plateflipper.com/index.html

I've got to say, I agree entirely with Phil's original point the first entry of the thread. What is annoying is the assumption by many that if you drive an american car you must be into the 'lifestyle' too, because of the dominance of a certain type of static show in the Uk as opposed to clubs that encourage the actual use of the vehicles doing what they were made for. I love the cars, but the 'lifestyle' makes me vomit.

Of COURSE everyone to their own, and people want to dress up as cowboys that's their business, but it's not anything I want to be part of OR associated with.

Yesterday I finally I had a real crack at tuning the new truck engine. Now, up to this point, I was never 100% sure that all this stuff would work, so it was time to finally find out.

As you may remember from my last post, I had replaced the stock ECU with this contraption:



Now, this replacement ECU is an ebay-bought / junkyard ECU from a similar 80's GM vehicle, so I had to just assume it was ok. Plus, me and Dr Frank had fiddled with it as necessary to get this tuning business to work.

First we had to desolder the original EEPROM chip holder, and solder in a replacement that a normal ribbon cable could be plugged into. Which meant pulling the ECU completely to bits, and going from this:



to this ...



to this:



Those pics are from the http://www.moates.net\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">www.moates.net site, who sell a lot of the hardware needed to do this tuning lark, but you still have to 're-engineer' the ECU yourself. So it was me and Dr Frank who did very similar steps to those above. Actually we converted the spare ECU months and months ago, but it's only now that it was time to put it to use.

Now, neither my or Dr Frank's soldering skills are exactly world class, and you can see how much soldering and desoldering of intricate bits on a TWENTY year old fragile circuit board is necessary, so again, I just hoped for the best.

The black box taped to the ECU in the first pic is an 'emulator', which pretends to be the chip that was originally in the ECU, allowing me to change parameters using a laptop and TunerRT software.

You can see in the first pic that a ribbon cable snakes inside the ECU from the emulator box, it is plugged into the new hole in the ECu:



The other end of the black box has a USB cable that leads to my laptop.


Ok, now last time I fired up the truck with the new engine, I still had the original stock pre-build ECU sitting under the dash where it lives and connected. The truck ran like a dog as expected, as the new engine has much bigger fuel injectors than the original, as so was running wasy too rich, as the stock ECU doesn't know about the bigger injectors.

So, yesterday, I finally unglugged the old ECU, and connected the new cobbled together affair in its place. Now as I'm sure you all know, if the new ECU wasn't fully functioning, the truck wouldn't run at all, we all know that a burnt out 'brain' means an engine won't run at all.

I connected up my laptop using TunerPro RT software, and changed the FUEL CONSTANT from the stock 134 down to a much lower 92 to compensate for the bigger injectors, and 'uploaded' this to the black box of tricks.

Then, finally, we fired up the engine.

WOOHOOO!!! It fired up and ran MUCH better immediately, it was working.

Now for the really fun part.

With the engine running, I changed the Fuel constant on my laptop to a slightly different number. AS SOON AS I pressed 'ENTER' on my laptop keyboard, the engine idle note of the truck changed IMMEDIATELY to a slightly different sound.

REAL TIME engine manipulation by laptop folks!!!

Unforunately we ran out of petrol (and daylight) soon after, so we had to call it a day. I was also trying to get feedback data from the truck with an ALDL to USB cable at the same time, but couldn't get it working. I've realised today that I hadn't configured the right COM port, so hopefully I'll get it working next time. What THAT allows me to have, is a 'dash' on my laptop showing the current RPM, Vehicle speed, Throttle Position etc at the same time as being able to alter fuel and spark.

Also, I haven't fully wired up the WideBandCommander yet, which has another USB cable allowing me to monitor Air Fuel ratio exactly on the laptop too. I'll get that wired in this week, and next weekend we'll finish a few minor mechanical jobs like some vacuum pipes and dipstick, put in some more fuel, and we'll have a really good crack at getting this engine tuned to the point I can drive it to the MOT station (at which point after the tuning REALLY starts)

Though it may not look like you expect! I've been busy with the soldering iron and electronics spare bits box recently, so here it is in all its glory:



It's an amalgamation of various designs available on the internet, and should produce 1 Volt of output per 1000rpm for an 8 cylinder engine (adjustable to get just right). I'll hook it up to a microprocessor and attached Analog-to-Digitial convertor I'm working on:



These guts then sit behind the new console section I've constructed:



Which sits in the dash:



The display will (when I'm finished) display the RPM as a number, e.g. "2000 RPM"

Pics when finished :)

Quoting: EDGE

you gotta do one of these next...

Heheheh, maybe

Quoting: Cunning Plan

So whats a widebandcommander?

Take a look at http://www.widebandcommander.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.widebandcommander.com/

It's just a loggable wide band 02 (lamba) sensor system for monitoring exhaust Air / Fuel ratio, helpful in tuning the engine.

Carrying on from the addition of the WidebandCommander Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge in my previous installment, I've made some more related dash changes.

The radio in an '87 Chevy truck normally sits at the bottom right part of the dash. In my truck this had already been moved to the (also custom) centre console, and a sheet plate installed where the radio was, with two rocker switches:



I have always intended to rework this panel to fit more into it. I need two rocker switches at least (for fog light, and a button for the WideBandCommander), plus I have on-and-off been working on a microprocessor system for the truck (see http://www.byvac.co.uk\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.byvac.co.uk ) which can be used as an anti-theft device in conjunction with an ECU map/tune switcher, among other things. I haven't finished it yet, (some wiring and writing the program), but the peripheral hardware is finsihed. I wanted to install this, AND provide a USB point for the various USB driven devices I'm installing, i.e. the WideBand, also the ALDL stock ECU data feed, the microprocesser, and the Ostrick ECU Emulation device.

Ok, first make a template:



and



Cut out of sheet aluminium:



Bend the sides:



Now test fit the devices I'm going to fit, switches, USB hub, a data entry pad, and an LCD display:



And from the back:



Test fit onto the dash. Also here, you can see I've now fitted the Superior Customs rosewood dask wood kit ( http://www.superiorcustoms.com/catalog/CHEVY.GMC.1981_main.htm\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.superiorcustoms.com/catalog/CHEVY.GMC.1981_main.htm ):



Now, fit some felt/foam to the aluminium frame of the new dash section:



Then cover with a piece of black vinyl, and fit the switches and data hardware:



I also double checked at this point that powering up the devices still worked:



Finally fit to the dash binnacle:



When I put the dash binnacle back into the truck, I'll at the bare miniumum wire up the two rocker switches, and plug the WideBandCommander USB into the exposed USB port.

More to come!!

Ok, so in the last installment, I had successfully removed the stock dash instrument cluster from the truck. The stock instrument dash has a 'blank' pod that appears to be the same-ish size as a new gauge I want to install as a tuning tool for my new engine build, i.e. an Air / Fuel ratio gauge which is part of the WidebandCommander O2 kit I am in the middle on installing.

I had previously acquired an almost identical to stock instrument cluster from ebay, which also had a 100MPH speedo instead of my stock 85MPH one, which I intended to swap over as part of the A/F gauge installation.

I decided to take the ebay spare cluster to bits first, so I didn't have to worry as much about breaking it while taking it to bits as practice for the stock one out of my truck.

First then, take one ebay instrument cluster:



Unbolt the transparent plastic cover:



Unbolt the metal cover:



Unbolt the individual gauges:



Gauges on their own:



A closer look at the speedo. Fancy a bit of very easy mileage 'clocking' anyone? Don't trust an old-body-style odometer reading ever again! This is the 100MPH speedo I intended to use in my truck.



Ok, so now I knew taking the cluster to bits isn't difficult, so it was time to take the 'real' one from my truck to bits. Start again:



Take the transparent cover and black backing off:



Now, the black cover in the ebay cluster was a really nice pressed metal item. The one out of my truck is a horrible plastic one!! As you can see it has a 'blank' pod in it, which is just plastic. Rather than mess about drilling ot cutting it, I would use the nice metal one instead, as it already has a hole in correct place for the new gauge.

The rear of the cluster from my truck has an 'extra' set of connections at the back:



I had already guessed that these connectors are for the ECU in my truck as the first year (1987) of computer controlled TBI engines. The connectors are for the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS), which is tacked onto the previous year style speedometer.

Comparing the VSS-enabled 85MPH speedo and the non-VSS 100MPH speedo together:



The 100MPH speed doesn't have the correct backing plate for the VSS sensor, so I decided to leave it and keep the 85MPH speedo. Looking carefully here, you can see the VSS sensor is just a some form of light reflecting/reading device that counts the speedo spinning:



Ok, so on with fitting the new WidebandCommander A/F gauge. First I offered up the gauge to the metal backing plate:



It was very close in size, but didn't quite fit. After a LOT of messing around with a grinder and a file, I managed to enlarge the hole to allow the gauge to slide into place:



View from the back:



The metal backing plate is a nice snug fit for the gauge, which means it won't move about at all. Now obviously, the wiring for the new gauge needs to exit from the back of the instrument cluster so it can be wired in. So I had to cut into the back of the cluster:



I had to make the hole a bit bigger than in the picture in the end, to allow the illumination bulb of the new gauge to sit right. Now for a test fit of the cluster and metal plate:



Then I made a test fit of the front transparent plastic cover on top of that. Ooops! As the new gauge sits proud with its silver bezel, the clear plastic cover couldn't be bolted on top. No problem though, I just cut a hole in it, big enough for the gauge body, but not the bezel, with the idea for the gauge to sit proud of the cover when finished.

Cut cover:



Sit the A/F gauge in it from the outside:



Then slide through the metal cover (again, a snug fit to grip it well):



Finally, I can put it all back together!! A view from the back to see the wiring looms:



And the finished artlicle:



Now I can put the cluster back into the truck!! Pics to follow

First, remove the dash pad:



To show the dash shell underneath. I had to to this as I discovered that even after removing all the screws holding the instrument bezel in, it would only slide out upwards, which meant the dash pad had to come off.



With the instrument bezel now physically free, I had to remove the multi-plug, speedo cable, speed sensor, and illumination bulb:



Finally out! Mmmm, lovely 80's wiring:



Even nicer plastic circuit board:



I'm going to replace the empty dial in this cluster with the WidebandCommander Air / Fuel ratio gauge. Pics to follow when I do it!

Quoting: F Body

If it isn't chained to anything I'm amazed that it was still there

Is that a garage or Shipping container

It's a shipping container I rent from a mate of dodgy Dr Frank.

The bike's been on the estate road 5 floors down, round the corner for about 6 months on and off now. The thing about London, unlike other towns, you have to remember, is that no-one knows who any one else is, or what they do, or who they know etc. So everyone mostly seems to leave everybody's stuff alone, and as the estate road is not a through road, there isn't any public traffic either.

I must admit, my estate does look dodgy on Google Maps



But it's ok, honest

Only sort of, but there seems to be a bike story from everyone else, and I didn't want to be left out

The truck's dash has one spare (blank) gauge pod, which is perfect for the Air/Fuel ratio gauge that comes as part of the WideBandCommander kit I am fitting to help tune the new engine.

Also, I got hold of a spare full instrement bezel and all the gauges on ebay a while back, mainly because the ebay one has a rare-ish 130MPH speedo, which I want to replace my stock 85MPH one with.

Anyway, that was all fantastic in theory, but in practice, I got as far as removing the outer bezels with a screwdriver, and then realised I needed a 6 mill spanner to get the unit out. Which I didn't have with me. Never mind, next time!



Actually, I didn't mind, as I only went up to the lockup to parkup my bike there. It hassn't been getting used much in the last month, and I don't like it sitting outside on the estate doing nothing and not moving for too long. Especially as I live on the 5th floor of an ex-council block in South London. No, really!!

So I've parked her up with the Chevy factory manuals and knackered old engine block out of the truck



Tidy

You're all worrying far too much. When I imported my truck, I insured it with Adrian Flux on the VIN for the first 30 days of the insurance policy. I went to Southampton docks to pick it up, and got in it with only the plastic Ohio State temporary rear license plate on it, and drove up the M3 at great speed all the way home to South London.

Welcome to MY world!! The Jag-pimpmeister took 83 litres in one sitting when I was running on fumes in the a-hole nowhere of Scotland ...

My Jag has dual exhausts, and the filler is on the near / passenger / curb side.

The truck has duals and a filler on BOTH sides

Here's a pic of how the engine bay USED to look, about 3 years ago! (Not completely stock as I had bought it, as I had already replaced the stock exhaust manifolds with heavy duty headers by then)

Quoting: Motorama

obviously we want a video of the monumental moment

Your wish is my command ...

http://www.ntalbot.demon.co.uk/MOV00246.mpg\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.ntalbot.demon.co.uk/MOV00246.mpg

We moved the dizzy around 180 degrees, and fired her up. I knew because of the bigger injectors withou altering the ECU mapping yet it would run rich which was the case, but better rich than lean just to fire it up. We ran the engine for about 10 / 15 minutes just to bed it in and check it would actually go, which it did. (I checked the oil afterwards, and there was the tiniest smell of petrol in the oil because of bore washing, but we'll change it very soon). So, she runs! The cam should be bed in now, which was the main concern, along with the other engine components.

The video sounds rougher than it should because half the exhausts have rotted away and were only loosely bolted onto the header ends. After the inital 15 minute break in, when it was turned over and run again everything sounded and ran more freely and smoother and quieter every time.

The new pulley system worked well too. One of the belts has moved a rib on the A/C compressor, so that needs a bit of grinding on one side of the mount and padding on the other side to move it a smidge. This weekend we'll take care of a few other jobs like properly siting the oil dipstick, the trans dipstick and vaccuum tube etc.

The best thing was after having to drag the truck to a different place in the yard to fire it up so as not to annoy the neighbours, I was able to drive it back to it's normal place under it's own power!!

There is a trick we can use to reduce the richness without having to alter the ECU (apply a strong vaccuum to the fuel regulator reference simulating overrun), which we'll use to get the engine to idle this weekend so we can set the base distributor timing correctly with a timing light. I'll also install the Wideband Oxygen sensor in the pre-welded bung and replace the stock O2 sensor.

Once we're at that point, the next step is I HAVE to start fiddling with all the laptop computer, USB cabled, ECU emulator equipment I have colleced to tune the new engine correctly!!!