Tonight on Top Gear....

[Titsy]

Muscle Car Night!

[Monkey]

Wish I'd watched it instead of this crap game of footie :0( good job I have sky+ :0)

[philoldsmobile]

not a bad review, cited the Camaro at £40k, exactly what i was expecting. not quite sure why they pitched it against a car costing twice as much, but they did echo something thats been nagging me for a while - its not really a camaro, just a holden with a boob job.

not really much of a test - no comments as such on the car, but did notice the car below it on the lap tome board was........ a renault megan (albeit the super hot version)    - it goes to show how bloody fast some 'normal' cars have become.....

cool car though and at least it wasn't instantly dismissed. I think its for the better were not getting the V6, i found a motor trend review online, one of the things that struck me is that its got single piston sliding calipers, the sort of stuff the press would pounce on and utterly tear the car apart for, it was also beaten in almost every respect by a hyundai (albeit not one we get here - the Genesis)

seems the SS is the only camaro to have.

[Andy]

Can never expect Top Gear to be fair on American cars, and as it appears Reliant Robins!

It's also definately not a review show! I mean, a £40k Yank sports coupe,  verses a German Mercedes tuned by AMG saloon costing twice as much.

As ever though, Hammond showing his true muscle car fan boi status!

[VIPER]

Rather have a VXR8 Bathurst S..........

[philoldsmobile]

Quoting: Andy

Can never expect Top Gear to be fair on American cars

I dunno, the test they did in the US on the Caddy, Challenger and corvette was very fair, and very complimentary - they all loved them.

Sad thing is up until recently modern yanks from about the mid 90's onwards really haven't been up to scratch when compared against European or Jap cars. drive a neon then drive a focus, the neon is more like a daewoo or a kia, not a contender in its market segment at all.

I loved my camaro, but the honest truth is a Manta GSE or 2.8 capri of the same era would have destroyed it in every way.

recent reports of the Corvette C6 have been very honest, only siting the interior build and rather dated suspension layout as flaws, but commenting its very fast, and very sorted in the chassis department, for very little money.

[philoldsmobile]

I really liked the 2004 model Chrysler concorde LXi I rented in the States, but could understand why the UK press wouldn't, not a massively flawed car when driven normally, but tight radius on ramps showed a distinct lack of feel in the steering (kinda jelly like), no big deal in the real world, but put it on the track against something like a BMW 5 series and its going to show its weakness, and thats what the press pick up on.

It doesn't mean its a bad car, and personally I really prefer that slight flaw caused by soft suspension to the nasty ride you get in a BMW, all jiggles and niggles. that was just before chrysler decided to cut corners on the interior too, because it was much better screwed together than the 300C

[HardRockCamaro]

I will never understand why cars are reviewed against other cars costing a lot more.  That's not how people shop for cars.

"I have £xx to spend, what can I get" is a far more realistic was of doing it.

So if the Camaro costs £40k compare it to a car that costs 40k.
But of course then you din't get an uber powerful sports machine.  You get a very tame BMW 3 series coupe or an Audi TT or something like that.  And then, even if the plastics in the Camaro are not up to that of the TT, you start wondering if you're prepared to sacrifice the power for some better plastic...

*that* is the beauty of American cars, what you get for the money.
If you want to compare like for like in terms of spec then of course the German/Japanese wins, they cost twice as much.  If Chevy could charge AMG money for the Camaro the interior and handling would be on par.

[philoldsmobile]

indeed, without a doubt, but thats not how the UK buyers see it. give the average buyer a 40k TT and a 40k camaro, and 9 out of 10 will buy the audi.

how do you think mercedes have got away with comparatively poor interiors in recent years, while chrysler get picked up on theirs (admittedly the 300C is truly horrific)

the current caddy CTS is at least the equal of any BMW inside, but the press will never report that - in fact, the current CTS is at least on par if not better than any BMW, yet people will still buy the inferior, more expensive BMW..

its fighting a loosing battle. part of me thinks Chevy would be better off not bothering with the camaro and vette, for fear of leaving their reputation in tatters, and letting the independents do a far better job, leaving 'oddity appeal' in tact.

I've already seen comments on youtube with people in the UK thinking the camaro comes from the same company as the matiz.

[HardRockCamaro]

Quoting: philoldsmobile

indeed, without a doubt, but thats not how the UK buyers see it. give the average buyer a 40k TT and a 40k camaro, and 9 out of 10 will buy the audi.

That's fair enough but why did Top Gear not compare it to the TT instead of a 72k (before options) Mercedes?

Because you can't get a European muscle car for 40k, that's why and the SS would have annihilated a 40k Mercedes around that track.

And that goes back to the benefits of cars from Detroit.  You have to pay a *lot* more to get a V8 vehicle from a european manufacturer.  You're lucky to get even the base 4 or 6 cyl model with nothing in it from the Germans for the cost of a V8 from the states.

The beauty of the Sierra Cosworth was that it was an affordable super saloon.  It was faster than the German salons, heck it was faster than many Porsches, no it wasn't as well built but it cost half as much.

Why Top Gear and pub experts can't see the similarity these days is beyond me...


If I won the lottery would I buy a Corvette or a Cadillac?  No, I'd buy an Aston or Rolls Royce.  Because money no object they're simply the better cars and I'd buy the best one.  But with a 30, 40, 50 or 60k budget, I'd likely end up with something American.

[Andy]

Quoting: HardRockCamaro

If I won the lottery would I buy a Corvette or a Cadillac? No, I'd buy an Aston or Rolls Royce. Because money no object they're simply the better cars and I'd buy the best one. But with a 30, 40, 50 or 60k budget, I'd likely end up with something American.

Nah! Would buy 3 or 4 Yanks for the price of a Roller! The odds are then stacked in your favour of one of them working rather that being broken or the interior plastic causing your bodily harm from being so tacky... enter other reasons Top Gear doesn't like American cars.

[philoldsmobile]

Quoting: HardRockCamaro

The beauty of the Sierra Cosworth was that it was an affordable super saloon. It was faster than the German salons, heck it was faster than many Porsches, no it wasn't as well built but it cost half as much.

badges didn't mean as much back then (i was 20 years ago - can you believe it!), hence the reason Vauxhall and ford (or even Renault or citroen) could offer, and sucessfully sell big cars back then, but cant now.

the last version of the scorpio in the late 90's was a completely capable car, but it was doomed the moment there was a ford badge on it.

people 'wear' cars as much as drive them now.