Transmission issues on a 1996 cadillac Eldorado ETC

[minniewinnie]

I have a got my first big problem that is beyond me My caddy had clutch slip(done it to me twice now but then seems to sort its self out) and it was not engaging 4th ( 80 mph cruising and it was doing over 5000 rpm so I presume not changing into top gear) and it seemed to be changing gear a little erratic sometimes at lower speeds :dontknow: I did check the transmission fluid and it seemed to be low to me but was not 100% so I asked my local garage double check the fluid levels and they said it was low so have topped it up (with dexron 3 as recommended on the dip stick) its now decided to only let me have 2 gears 1st and 2nd it does change into 3rd but it wont drive as it just revs its nuts off similar to clutch slip in a manual (what ever they did seems to have made it worse) I have tried to check the fluid levels BUT when I take the dip stick out to check it is pouring hot bubbly trans fluid out of the filler hole.
Went to another garage (who do some work on older American cars) and they have said its probably the clutch has gone or its overfull but he has said its more likely to be the clutch as it was not changing into to top gear before it was topped up but don't know for sure
So any ideas most welcome or suggestions of a reasonable transmission specialist.
Many thanks. Andy

[Roadkill]

Quoting: minniewinnie

80 mph cruising and it was doing over 5000 rpm so I presume not changing into top gear)

My Eldo was in the high 2000's at 75mph (IIRC) so sounds like your missing at least one gear . . .

The gearboxes seem to be weak on these cars - especially the ones behind the more powerful Northstar - which I'm guessing yours is ?

It's a major reason for so many cheapie Sevilles / STS's etc . . on ebay.

[HardRockCamaro]

The gearbox finally went on mine, but according to the Cadillac forum I frequent, transmisison failure is not that common even behind the Northatar.  The box itself is not weak but the electronics are buried inside it so a £30 part becomes a £3,000 transmission out job (because of the labour lowering the entire front assembly, engine and all out of the car to then separate the transmission form the engine)

Regarding checking the fluid level, did you do it with the transmission hot and in park after running it through fwd and reverse?  If you don't it appears low when it isn't.

the only common failure on the box that sits behind the Northstar is the shift solenoid and these can be changed with the transmission still in the car.
Basically there are two, an A and a B solenoid.  I can't quite remember but I think A does the 1st to 2nd shift, and B does the 2nd to 3rd shift.  Not sure if it uses both for 3rd to 4th...


80mph at over 5,000 rpm sounds to me like you're possibly still in 2nd.  It depends on the final drive ratio in the Eldo, but 2nd gear at 6,000rpm was 75mpg in my STS before it then changed up but I had 3.73s, if you have longer gearing (entirely possible in an Eldo) then you could go even faster in 2nd before hitting 6,000rpm.


Mine would change up no problem but started slipping in top gear, as soon as you squeezed the throttle the revs would climb as if it had slipped down to a lower gear, and sometimes when trying to maintain a steady cruise in top it would sit there either locking and unlocking the torque converter or slipping, I'm not sure which.
The next owner called me and said he had found the same problem and resetting the computer solved it for a few hundred miles so it must have been electrical.  There is an additional solenoid to the 2 I mentioned which are easy to get to, which is buried inside the box.  The feeling was it might be that one for my problem, which is why I got shot of the car for next to nothing to we buy any car.

If it hadn't had that problem I would still have it now as it was a wonderful car.

[minniewinnie]

Thanks for the Info so far peeps it nice to know I'm not going mad and it in my head. I think the garage that I took it to to double check the fluid level has over filled it as I have just popped out and checked it although it is cold. It is above the cold mark on the dip stick with engine running

I managed to pull some codes

History codes.
PC 0113
PC 0172
PC 0175
PC 0632
IP 2710
IP 2781

Current codes
TC 0072
TC 0073
TC 0077

There are NO SPM,ACM,IRC,RFA,CCP,RSS,PZM Codes And the final thing was PCM?
Seems a lot of codes to read

[Roadkill]

Quoting: minniewinnie

Seems a lot of codes to read

GM's are always very finicky with codes - my Eldo poured out loads of codes when I checked that.

I got a guy on one of the Cadillac forums to makes sense of my codes . . . I did have some on a PDF somewhere - I'll have a look.

[Roadkill]

Have a read of this - any good to you ?

http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20442\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://caddyinfo.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20442

[minniewinnie]

Well have had my trusted mechanic look at it and he has managed to remove/syphon off 1 ltr of fluid so the fluid level is now correct and after test drive its defiantly not changing gear :( It is not even using 1st and 2nd as I first thought but is only using 2nd gear so it looks like Winnebago syndrome all over again   He is going to speak with his gearbox bloke in Luton on Thursday for any ideas / price for repair     its starting to look like it going to be an expensive problem to resolve  :(

[F Body]

Experience shows that the only place to get these modern highly complex electronic boxes repaired is at a proper expert gearbox place like GM automatics

No point in throwing good money at the problem for it to reappear a few thousand miles later

I know it sounds harsh, but work out what the car is actually worth and then see what percentage of the value it will cost to repair

IMHO if it's anything more than 65%, cut your losses and get shot of it, before it becomes an even bigger money pit ( I learnt this lesson the hard way - three times )

[HardRockCamaro]

GM Automatics want about £2,500+vat for any repair to that box that involves removing it fro, the car and stripping it down.  It's a full days labour to remove it from the car and a full days labour to put it back in.  And that's if it all goes well.

[minniewinnie]

Quoting: F Body

Experience shows that the only place to get these modern highly complex electronic boxes repaired is at a proper expert gearbox place like GM automatics

Cheers for the info
It's probably something silly like a servo or something (well that what I keep telling my self LOL) I shall give them a phone call tomorrow ad see what they suggest I do like the car and was expecting little problems from its time in storage but This one I was not expecting

Quoting: F Body

I know it sounds harsh, but work out what the car is actually worth and then see what percentage of the value it will cost to repair

Would not have a clue to how much its worth but it owes me in the region of 3K So working on that  65% basis.  65% of £3000 = £1950 so that's a figure to bear in mind Again thank you

Quoting: F Body

cut your losses and get shot of it, before it becomes an even bigger money pit ( I learnt this lesson the hard way - three times )

Yep been there to with a SD1 Rover and a porsche 924 they cost me a lot in parts over a short period of time when in reality I should have got rid But It would be quite scary to work out how much they did cost in the time I owned them

[philoldsmobile]

yup, i'd suggest GM automatics is probably the only place that will be actually able to fix it (or maybe baur millet, but why would you?) even with the 700R4 many people claim to be able to fix them, but very few can.

[Motorama]

I wouldnt let GM Automatics near any of my cars

[minniewinnie]

Quoting: philoldsmobile

i'd suggest GM automatics is probably the only place that will be actually able to fix it

Phoned them to day I got the impression he did not want to do it as he went on about what a bitch of a job it was and then quoted me £3000 for a rebuild

Quoting: Motorama

I wouldnt let GM Automatics near any of my cars

I think I might have to agree with you on that one that's twice they have made it obvious they don't want to fix my car/ motorhome They totality refused to even consider my motor home when we phoned them a few years back when that did the same and would not change gear

[Big Mouse]

Penn Autos in Wolverhampton, run by Andy Frost, is the man for auto boxes, from simple 700r4's to jerichos. He's not likely to be any cheaper though

Cheap repairs to auto boxes are exactly that - cheap repairs.

[HardRockCamaro]

It is a much more complicated box than the 700R4 and more to the point is a major job to get in and out of the vehicle as you have to lower the whole front cradle.  £2,500 - £3,000 is the going rate for a rebuild on a Northstar gearbox.

If it's shift solenoids they can be done with the box in the car.  Any other job is the wrong side of £2,500.


Your code numbers look weird to me btw, they don't match up with the table I have for my STS, for example are you missing a letter?   pc being pcm?  ip being ipc?

[minniewinnie]

Quoting: HardRockCamaro

Your code numbers look weird to me btw, they don't match up with the table I have for my STS, for example are you missing a letter? pc being pcm? ip being ipc?

To be honest I don't have a clue All I did was follow these directions on how to pull codes on the Caddy info Discussion Forum

DTC display 1989-2000:

1. Turn the ignition switch ON. [Bruce notes: interestingly, the engine can be on or off]

2. On the cars up to 1995, on the Climate Control panel, press the OFF and WARM buttons simultaneously

   On the 96/97, push the OFF button and the top (warmer) end of the PASS rocker switch.
Which lights the dash up like a Christmas tree Then I just wrote down the codes as it displayed them . It is a export model (jap imported) and from what I can make out the codes are done different for some reason I shall look at getting the shift solenoids replaced as that is a cheaper option  and I have read somewhere on one of the caddy forums they are a weak link in the gearbox something to do with the way they are fitted in place  or something like that.... Cheers for all the help so far Ya all Worse case scenario I can always stick it on ebay (although I might know someone who might have it as he really really likes it and he knows about the gear box issue as well)  it Its just a shame as I do like the car BUT I don't want to turn it into a money pit/ cant afford to either

[HardRockCamaro]

This is why I sold my STS.
It really only lost the torque converter lockup (although it slipped out of top goo easy too imho) and as the speed limit is 50 at most around here I could just put up with it and pay a little more for petrol on a longer run.  Way cheaper than fixing it.  Yours is much worse though.

Mine was worth 3-3.5k when I sold it for just 1k.

I may as well have fixed it for that as the loss=the repair bill, but no matter.

I still highly rate those cars though, v. quiet and the most comfortable way I've ever experienced to cover miles and the Northstar engine is a real Jekyll and Hyde affair, quiet and smooth on light throttle but revs and pulls like a train when you floor it.  Not much will keep up with them, you need expensive German super saloons to get by one, heck I had mine at 160 on the clock at one point and it still had a little more in it.  If they geared it for top speed instead of low cruising revs (150mph = 4,500rpm out of  a possible 6,250) I'm curious as to how fast it would go...

[Roadkill]

Quoting: minniewinnie

BUT I don't want to turn it into a money pit/ cant afford to either

To be utterly realistic, no-one's likely to fix it - it is, unfortunately, not likely to be financially viable for most people.

If you flog it on eBay as is you're likely to see in the region of £600-£700 as I've seen runners go for £860-£1000 (I got outbid on a '98 Seville, T&T - only issue was flakey laquer on hood).

If you break it yourself you'll most likely see a bit more than that in parts, although the ETC's are relatively rare over here, compared to the STS's / Sevilles so parts demand will be lower.

If you do go down the breakers' route - give me a shout as I'll be very, very interested in the Northstar.

[minniewinnie]

I have her booked in at http://www.northamericanmotorco.com/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.northamericanmotorco.com/ as they reckon they should be able to read any gear box codes it may have although it is going to cost £40 to plug it in to the computer... They probably wont get the job to repair it though as I still remember the cost for my first camaro repair  (close to £1750.00 But that's another story Just say 6 fuel injectors and a oil seal)   But hopefully it will help and hopefully it will be the shift solenoids I have also had a quote for repair from the people my MOT mechanic uses http://www.automaticgearbox.biz/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.automaticgearbox.biz/ and have spoke with them and worse case scenario a total rebuild would cost under £2000 all inclusive Oil,filter,vat + it would have a 18 month guarantee.  but they have left it with me to find out the codes from the gear box being discovered and It might a lot lot lot less to repair I will keep ya all posted on how it goes OR don't go LOL And many many thanks for all the suggestions/links etc etc

Quoting: Roadkill

If you do go down the breakers' route - give me a shout as I'll be very, very interested in the Northstar

If It is to expensive to repair It will have to go as a complete lot  as I have no space to break it

[Roadkill]

Good luck !!

[HardRockCamaro]

If you can get it fully rebuilt for 2k all inclusive in and out of car with a warranty that is fecking cheap.

[art b]

 for ya .....

[Motorama]

surprised at Namco offeriing to do it thought they were more into older stuff and hot rods

[minniewinnie]

Quoting: Motorama

surprised at Namco offeriing to do it thought they were more into older stuff and hot rods

they do have a lot of older stuff but there is a lot of the  newer stuff in this area so i suppose they have geared up to accommodate that  
I only phoned them out off desperation to see if they could possibly help and he reckons they should be able to read the gearbox computer side of it

[v8mad0]

Good luck Andy I got my fingers AND toes crossed for ya