Gutted - Camaro wouldn't start.

Started by F Body, January 09, 2011, 12:19:22 PM

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F Body

#75
January 29, 2011, 08:28:09 AM
Quoting: HardRockCamaro
I'm not convinced your injectors are firing...


Indeedy and if the ECM doesn't get the 50hz signal from the BCM they never will

I've been delving into the BCM diagnostics



The factory service manual say's :

1/ Turn ignition to Run position.

2/ Turn ignition to OFF position.

3/ Remove fuse 17.

4/ Turn ignition to ACCY position ( BCM sounds 2 audible tones ).

5/ Within 5 seconds turn ignition to OFF position.

6/ Within 1 second turn ignition to ASSY position ( BCM sounds 3 audible tones to signal entry into diagnostic mode ).

The BCM then flashes what ever trouble code using the security lamp :



Current codes are :

12 = System Check working.

31 = RAP feed shorted to ground ( i.e interior light one because door is open ).

33 = Ditto.

55 = Begin trouble code display.

26 = Security lamp functional.

All of which means Jack

Starting to delve into the ECM diagnostics now

F Body

#76
January 29, 2011, 09:03:16 AM
Had to laugh when I read this in the electrical repair manual :



Not according to any GM vehicle owners forum you go onto

So to 100% eliminate the resistor key issue, I removed the resistor link :



End result  the "Security" light flashed continuously indicating a key code problem :



Put the resistor link back in and the light went out, motor still cranks but won't fire

F Body

#77
January 29, 2011, 09:31:50 AM
If you lay upside down on the passenger seat you can see the BCM module up inside the dashboard behind the air bag module



Pulled out all the connectors and put them back in again :



End result cranks but won't fire

Going to go over the fuel circuit electrics now

Oh found also found a carpet sticker ( dated 11 days before the car was built ) :

F Body

#78
January 29, 2011, 09:56:14 AM
Fuel electrical system checked OK :





So where are we now

Well actually exactly the same place I was two weeks ago, but even more sure that the BCM is not sending the 50hz signal to the ECM to fire the injectors

I'm NOT going to dismantle or test anything else, all I'm doing is introducing more possibilities of something not working

I should get the £13.47 signal generator in the next week, it will take a few hours to find the correct wires and fit.

If that doesn't work we move onto the PCM, I've seen reflashed new PCM's with the VATS coding removed for $300 on flea bay

F Body

#79
January 29, 2011, 10:52:09 AM
Quoting: F Body
I've seen reflashed PCM's with the VATS coding removed for $300 on flea bay


Make that $89

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Camaro-1999-LS1-5-7L-Engine-Computer-ECM-PCM-9354896-/220715031589\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Camaro-1999-LS1-5-7L-Engine-Computer-ECM-PCM-9354896-/220715031589

OK that's bumped up with another $51 shipping to the UK, but total of $140 = £87 ain't gonna break the bank

Andy

#80
January 29, 2011, 12:07:42 PM
Have you tried the easy start? That's not a bad idea, as it'll prove everything except the fuel is working.

You should've got a carb version ;)

Titsy

#81
January 29, 2011, 02:43:36 PM
if you remove one of the injector connectors and connect a 12v bulb across the pins you should see a flash (although it might be faint) if the injector is being fired. a 12v 9W bulb (or there abouts) should do the job...

EDGE

#82
January 29, 2011, 04:02:47 PM
I'd definitely check the injectors are getting the signal to fire, a filament bulb should do it, maybe run in parallel with the injector as to not throw a code as the resistance will differ to that of the injector

Titsy

#83
January 29, 2011, 04:07:37 PM
Quoting: EDGE
maybe run in parallel with the injector as to not throw a code as the resistance will differ to that of the injector


It will definitely throw a code if you put it in parallel as it will half the impedance and so double the current draw. A 12v 9W bulb should be fairly representative of the injector as a replacement. Obviously it won't ring which my give a misfire code, but that can be cleared with the reader.

EDGE

#84
January 29, 2011, 05:36:23 PM
Very good point !  That's what I get for posting comments from the can !!

art b

#85
January 29, 2011, 07:06:51 PM
how about the old skool method of fault finding...


crank it over.... pull a spark plug..... see if its wet....

....then see if it sparks...

its gonna be no fuel or no spark ...

either way, this will give you an answer....simples...
This forum needs, ''YOU'' posting,Not just reading ! :moon:

VIPER

#86
January 30, 2011, 06:20:37 AM
Quoting: art b
how about the old skool method of fault finding...


crank it over.... pull a spark plug..... see if its wet....

....then see if it sparks...

its gonna be no fuel or no spark ...

either way, this will give you an answer....simples...



Thats what i would do..........

Or buy MOPAR

Incursus

#87
January 30, 2011, 06:24:25 AM
Quoting: VIPER
Or buy MOPAR

F Body

#89
January 30, 2011, 12:50:00 PM
Quoting: F Body
I'm NOT going to dismantle or test anything else


Well we all knew that wasn't going to happen

I've spent the last few hours finding the correct PCM pin No. 299 ( Fuel enable )  and soldering a wire onto it, then running it back to the drivers side footwell.





Then I made two ground connections, soldered and wired back the to footwell and then finally made a 12v accessory connection from the ignition lock, fused it, installed a hidden cut out switch and then tidied up.

So I now have four new wires ready and waiting for the new VATS bypass module



This means that it will only take me ten minutes to solder the new module in when it arrives

The big question will it work

Whilst I'm now starting to understand the highly complex electronic control systems of this vehicle, I can't help wondering that even if i've got all the right connections, is it going to work

Titsy

#90
January 30, 2011, 03:32:46 PM
Did you check the injectors or try the 'start you bastard'?

HardRockCamaro

#91
January 30, 2011, 04:04:01 PM
I'm a bit puzzled as to why you think it's the Body Control Module?

Seeing as how you don't actually know if the injectors are firing or not yet?
And if they're not, could even be the signal from the ecu not getting to the (read burnt wiring harness?)

art b

#92
January 30, 2011, 05:29:32 PM
martini,you do seem to be getting a bit to techy without checking for fuel or sparks....

remember to ''kiss''....
This forum needs, ''YOU'' posting,Not just reading ! :moon:

F Body

#93
January 31, 2011, 03:00:27 AM
Quoting: art b
martini,you do seem to be getting a bit to techy without checking for fuel or sparks..


As I said way back, I've got a very painful spark and that was through gloves

I also have fuel pressure at the rail, what I don't appear to have is anything the fire the injectors

Titsy

#94
January 31, 2011, 03:02:14 AM
Quoting: F Body
what I don't appear to have is anything the fire the injectors


Don't remember that bit, how did you check it?

Andy

#95
January 31, 2011, 03:17:58 AM
Check this out, particularly the bit about injectors. Maybe something to run through....

http://www.painlesswiring.com/faq.php?SearchCat=LS1%20-%20LS6\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">http://www.painlesswiring.com/faq.php?SearchCat=LS1%20-%20LS6

F Body

#96
February 03, 2011, 03:46:04 PM
Work is still progressing :

Got to the stage where most of the wiring is exposed now, so I can check all the connectors and earths







House is getting pretty full with trim parts and seats etc



Gradually eliminating every element, I will get the old Gal running

VIPER

#97
February 03, 2011, 05:02:23 PM


More to polish while your there..................

Roadkill

#98
February 04, 2011, 05:02:02 AM
Quoting: F Body
old Gal


That makes me chuckle.

Fieldy

#99
February 05, 2011, 04:24:15 AM
This thread makes my head hurt
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