Gutted - Camaro wouldn't start.

[philoldsmobile]

this thread reminds me of the fun I had trying to get the ever worsening flat spot diagnosed on the mustang...

[art b]

has martini disappeared up the exhaust,... looking for the fault...

[F Body]

Quoting: art b

has martini disappeared up the exhaust,... looking for the fault...

I'd like to say that the exhaust was one of the few parts I haven't been up

No.2 Piston right hand bank

[Titsy]

Is that a head gasket failure?

Doesn't that come under compression in the 'fuel, compression, ignition' checks?

[F Body]

Quoting: Titsy

Is that a head gasket failure?

No that's a picture taken using the £12k remote control endoscope that I borrowed

Here is left hand bank No. 3 :

[Andy]

So what are we looking at?


Fuel, water, something you haven't polished... yet.

[art b]

Quoting: F Body

im really the last person who should be let loose with a remote control endoscope

Quoting: Andy

So what are we looking at?


A.Fuel,
B, water,
C, something you haven't polished... yet.

we all know the answer is C.....

[FUBAR]

Quoting: F Body

No that's a picture taken using the £12k remote control endoscope that I borrowed

Cool  Fancy coming round & having a looking inside the IROC's  engine for a laugh??...   (Semi-serious question LOL)


Whatever you do don't put that up the exhaust either... cos it will probably go further than yours or FBJ's hands can go with a cleaning cloth & you'll find dirty bits...

Can you attach a swab to the end of the probe?... LOL

[F Body]

Quoting: FUBAR

Cool Fancy coming round & having a looking inside the IROC's engine for a laugh??... (Semi-serious question LOL)

Unfortunately it was very difficult to borrow and I only had it for one night

Have to say it is another thing that would be in my lottery win garage

[HardRockCamaro]

That's awesome! Want!!!

[art b]

I may not be a real gynecologist love...

but i can have a quick look for ya..

[F Body]

Quoting: art b

but i can have a quick look for ya.

Ain't much on this car I've not had apart

[Andy]

What did you take the rocker covers off for?

I'm baffled by this thread, are you sure you're not being led up the garden path?

[Fieldy]

Quoting: Andy

I'm baffled by this thread

Quoting: Fieldy

This thread makes my head hurt

.

[F Body]

Quoting: Andy

I'm baffled by this thread,

I spent weeks being baffled by the ruddy car

OK so lets have a round up of the causes, although I can't guarantee exactly in what order broke first

1/ First and foremost VATS ( Vehicle Anti Theft System ), it's not a question of if your VATS will fail, it's when ! Cheap but difficult to install the VATS by pass unit.

Symptom :  Cranks, Sparks and has fuel pressure but the injectors won't fire.

2/ Clifford Alarm - This caused me to strip the complete inside of the car out, to find the hidden wireless fuel pump cut out. When fitted in 2002 the genius fitter decided to fit it in the middle of drivers side footwell carpet, just in front of the drivers seat.

Symptom : Cranks, Sparks but no fuel pressure.

Clifford helpfully acknowledge that this may be there most unreliable part and should be removed from any system, I ripped the bugger out !

3/ Engine did then start but with a bad mechanical noise, so was shut down, hence the reason for the mechanical strip down and endoscope

Cause looked either to be a sticking piston ring ( lots of cranking with little oil pressure ) of another common failure in the LS1 engine, the rocker arm bearings.
After detailed examination both of these seemed unlikely, so the bores were oiled, oil was poured over the rocker arms and down the pushrod tubes. The engine was spun over a few times to remove the excess from the cylinders and everything reassembled.

Then the moment of truth, she spluttered into life smoking like a steam train and after about 2 minutes settled into a steady idle.

She had no major mechanical noises, so I took her for a spin around the block ( without most of the interior trim ).

She ran fine and then the front lights went out and further electrical investigation revealed that now the aircon wasn't working

Dropped the oil and filter again as a precautionary measure, even though they had only done 6 - yes 6 miles

Now having spending hours pouring over the official 1736 page GM Service Manual wiring diagrams and just about knowing where every one of the 112 wires from the ECU go, the front lights were any easy fix replacing fuse F26.

The aircon fault was traced to relay No.8567, a mere £36.30 for 2 from USless Automotive, well at least they were in stock

In the last week I've covered just over 200 miles of very mixed driving and the old Gal seems OK

So what have I learnt

A/ A good working knowledge of my cars electrical system.

B/ Never give up, I did talk to several Garages about having it recovered, but they seemed to have less idea than me and I'm well chuffed about fixing it myself.

C/ The only way to remove a 4th Gen head is to remove the engine first, this requires the complete front subframe, suspension and steering to be dropped using a 2 post hoist.
Even at cheap £65 per hour labour rates, this is going to cost you £1k+ just to get the engine out.

D/ Factor in another days labour to strip the engine and then you'll find out that most engine borers won't rebore an LS1 because they say the iron liners aren't thick enough.

E/ GM has stopped making the trusty LS1, the entry engine is now the LS3 which has an excellent solid 430bhp

F/ To have a replacement LS3 crate engine fitted is gonna cost you about £7k minimum, market value of a good Z28 is about £6k, if I'm lucky mines worth £8k.
So if your LS1 engine goes to lunch it's basically uneconomic to repair ( unless you happen to have a two post hoist that you can leave a Z28 on for a few weeks and do all the disassembly and reassembly work yourself ).

G/ In which case I'd make more money breaking the car for spares

Finally lifes a bitch, then you marry one, pay tax and die

[a91_formula]

Quoting: F Body

C/ The only way to remove a 4th Gen head is to remove the engine first, this requires the complete front subframe, suspension and steering to be dropped using a 2 post hoist.
Even at cheap £65 per hour labour rates, this is going to cost you £1k+ just to get the engine out.

Nope!.  We've just done a head gasket (both sides) on a 4th gen with the engine in situ!  Might be the LT1 and not like your LS1 but no reason why the LS1 can't be done in situ as well.

Whilst dropping the subframe, suspension and steering is the factory method we have also seen an LT1 pulled from the top

[F Body]

Quoting: a91_formula

Nope!. We've just done a head gasket (both sides) on a 4th gen with the engine in situ!

I had to make a special tiny spanner just to be able to get the rear most coil pack bolts off, how did you reach the bolts at the back of the heads

[EDGE]

Quoting: EDGE

clifford alarm ????

Quoting: F Body

2/ Clifford Alarm - This caused me to strip the complete inside of the car out, to find the hidden wireless fuel pump cut out. When fitted in 2002 the genius fitter decided to fit it in the middle of drivers side footwell carpet, just in front of the drivers seat.

Symptom : Cranks, Sparks but no fuel pressure.

Clifford helpfully acknowledge that this may be there most unreliable part and should be removed from any system, I ripped the bugger out !

3/ Engine did then start

knew I was right !

[a91_formula]

Quoting: F Body

I had to make a special tiny spanner just to be able to get the rear most coil pack bolts off, how did you reach the bolts at the back of the heads

Once you have taken all the bits n pieces off the top its fairly easy....

[HardRockCamaro]

Erm...

I have a question...

You said earlier that you heard the fuel pump prime so that Clifford fuel pump disable could not have been active?

So whether it was (1) or (2) you'd know due to the one different symptom, which was fuel pressure.  If only someone had suggested you check fuel pressure with a gage or press of the schrader valve on the fuel rail...  

[HardRockCamaro]

On a side note, I don't believe there was ever a problem starting the car, you just pulled the fuel pump fuse and told Management that there was a problem purely so you could strip it down and clean the inside of several bits...

[Jamieg285]

Well done Martyn,  good to know that all is well again.

[nick69]

Quoting: HardRockCamaro

If only someone had suggested you check fuel pressure with a gage or press of the schrader valve on the fuel rail...

Hehehehe