'79 Camaro - Major surgery

[Jamieg285]

A little bit more done yesterday.  

First off I ground off all of the burs and bumps left on the inner rocker from the spot welds and straightened up any bits that got bent.  I'll not be welding onto most of it, but needed it clean to ensure proper alignment.



I found a great way to hold the rocker roughly in place, allowing me to man handle the rest to get it where I wanted it.  The holes for the scuff plates are pre-drilled, so I simply held the panel up and screwed the plate on top.




I put a sheet metal screw into one of the front tabs that was already flush to the body, but as you can see, I had problems getting the other tabs to fit.


I took the rocker off again and had to cut a bit out of the triangle to allow it to clear the body, and also deepened the cut to the crease, to allow the panel to flex a bit more.


That allow it to twist a bit when I applied some pressure underneath which brought all the tabs into place and another screw was applied.


The front was now secured, but the panel was warping a bit due to the twist applied.  I put some downward pressure on the top and put 2 screws in through the top of the inner rocker (sorry, forgot pics, will get them next time).  

Then the lower needed similar treatment, pushing the bottom up at the rear, and putting a screw in the middle underneath (picture didn't come out properly)

There is still a bit of twist at the rear, but there's nothing there (yet) that I can put another screw in.

Next up was looking at patching the outer wheel house, where it joins the end of the rocker, to provide the first piece of new solid metal to weld to. The problem is, this area is so rotten I can't see what the original panel would have looked like, and I don't have a new panel to use as a donor.  Guess I will just have to work it out...

[Roadkill]

Quoting: Jamieg285

How resilient are they, is one likely to last or will I need more?

They wear down pretty slowly . . . obviously the more force, the quicker they'll wear.

I think I used 2 on the camaro.

The thing that kills them quick is sharp edges (like the inner lip of a wheel arch).

[art b]

jeez you have your work cut out for you [quite literally]  there Jamie

[Jamieg285]

Quoting: art b

jeez you have your work cut out for you [quite literally] there Jamie

Yes, but I'm having fun with it though.  Bit like a big jigsaw puzzle at the moment, although I'm missing some pieces and the instructions

[Jamieg285]

First off, a couple of missing pictures, showing where I put the screws in the interior side of the rocker panels:





I had less time than planned on Saturday, but still got a good 5 hours in.  As mentioned at the end of the last update, the next job that needed doing was patching up the outer wheelhouse so that there is some good metal to mate to the outer rocker.  Having looking through loads of pictures to work out what it is supposed to look like, I started working on a template.


It became clear that I wouldn't be able to complete the template until I knew where the metal from the new inner wheelhouse would be, so I changed tack and started to look at the inner wheelhouse instead. First up was working out just how much to cut out.  I didn't want to take out too much, as there were custom brackets for the rear seats which I wanted to leave intact if possible.  I made a note of where that was on the inside, just above the strengthening crease, and then started scrapping off the paint and rust to see where the rot stopped. Thankfully it wasn't too bad, and I marked out the maximum I wanted to remove.


Before cutting, there were a few spot welds to deal with, but these were so rusty and neither side of the metal was going to be retained, so I was able to easily chisel them apart.


Then, from the inside I started cutting away, starting at the minimum I wanted to cut away, followed by cuttting along the same line on the outside to get the areas that the angle grinder couldn't get to inside.



To make sure I didn't cut too far, I drilled a small reference hole from the inside, that showed me where to stop on the outside.



That piece was then removed.


It turned out that I wasn't happy with the size of that hole, so cut to my max size mark, starting from the outside and then finishing on the inside.


The inner and outer wheelhouse panels meet along the curve, and I found a number of small, closely spaced spot welds.


These were drilled out and the cut extended across to the door jamb, diverting downwards to avoid my bracing (in hindsight I'd put these a bit higher up)


Now I used the cut out pieces against the new panel to let me know where to cut the new patch.


It looks a bit small, just a fraction of the full panel.


Now I was able to offer up the patch into place, just roughly at this time, in able for me to finalise the cardboard template for the outer wheelhouse.


Then the template was transferred to sheet metal, along with some alignment guides.


The new piece was then bent roughly into shaped, offered up into place and a final cut made to the existing panel to make them line up.


The new panel was then trimmed and screwed into place, into the end of the outer rocker, and the the inner wheelhouse patch was offered back up again to check clearances and fit.




That was it for the day, after packing up I headed out to Northampton to relax and watch some racing.

[Jamieg285]

I started Sunday revved up and ready to go. The intention was to get the outer wheelhouse patch welded on so that I could apply the first set of welds to the outer rocker. As it transpired, things were more complicated than I expected and the work took a slightly different route.

Welding the outer wheelhouse patch was trickier than I thought it would be. This was the first time I'd welded with a decent C02/Argon mix (used pure CO2 until now) and it was hotter than I was used to, and I spent a lot of time chasing blow throughs on the old metal. The more I did the better I got, but I would definitely have been better of replacing the old metal here too if I had the chance. Anyway, it didn't take too long to get this on and the welds ground back. I didn't bother to spend too much time making it look pretty, as the inner face will be hidden, and the outer face covered with some suitable underbody coating at a later stage.


I wasn't sure at this stage whether to press on and weld the outer rocker on, or if I would be better off looking at the missing door jamb brace. Bearing in mind that I wouldn't be able to put weld the rocker until after I had painted at least the inner face of the new metal, I figured I might as well tackle the brace now, whilst I still had the opportunity to remove the rocker if needed.  As it happened, I didn't need to remove it for that, but I did further down the line.

The brace is a bit of guess work, as the existing one was almost totally gone.  Having studied the remains and as many pictures as I could find (none of which showed me exactly what I needed to see, but the combination got me close enough) I hatched a plan that would see a decent brace lap welded over the original, giving the right support, if not the originality.
First up was a paper template, easy to fold and shape around the various corners.



This unfolded to this rough shape, which was then transferred to cardboard, which being stiffer would give me a much more accurate shape before transerring to metal.


Realising I would need to remove some of the existing brace to get rid of the rusty bits, I had to open up the hole I had made in the quarter to get better access.  Even with the bigger hole I had to use a couple of different cutting tools to get into the tight spaces.




I went a bit too far at one point and almost went through the metal. It's a bit thin there now and will cause me some issues when I get to welding in that area later.



I was now able to do a proper fit with the cardboard template.


It was at this point that I remembered reading about this brace and how it ties in with the quarter and the rocker. It was important that this patch was long enough to reach the rocker, but left enough space to slot the bottom of the quater patch in between them.  At this point it became clear that I needed to incorporate the quarter patch properly into the plans, to ensure that it all fitted together properly.

The patch panel I have is shockingly bad, but from what I have read the same as all the others.  It's about 1/2 too wide, as you can see here comparing the passenger and drivers sides.


This meant that I would need to cut it both horizontally and vertically in some way to make it fit. At this stage, I'm going to try and re-use the front part of the panel on the car, where it folds around to meet the door jamb, and weld the patch in along the edge. Not sure how well this will go, so I have kept the bit that has been cut off the patch, as I think I may need it later.

Now that I needed to properly trial fit the quarter patch, I extended the cut (again) up the left hand edge to get rid of the rust on the outer seam. I then cut down at an angle to join the existing cut.


Realising that such a shape would be difficult to match properly to the patch, I cut yet again, but this time had the patch clamped over the top and cut through both patch and car panel together, ensuring they were the same shape.



With that worked out, it was back to the brace, now outlined and ready for cutting from the sheet steel.


Careful cutting and bending, followed by more bending, and more bending (I lost track of how many times I trekked backwards and forwards from the vice until I was happy with the final shape) it was done. The lower edge of the brace mates perfectly with the bottom of the quater patch, which mates perfectly with the outer rocker. This isn't the best picture to show it, but I will get more another time.


When it comes to final fitting, I will drill two holes down through the brace and quarter together, then spot weld then to the rocker, coming in with the welder from the hole on the inside of the car.

The next piece of unexpected work was to complete the outer wheelhouse patch, where it joins with the quarter patch. All of the work I had done so far needed painting before going any further, so it was clear I needed to finish this piece now.
I started by cutting away the worst of the rust, and then made another cardboard template.



This was then transferred to the sheet metal, cut and bent to shape.


This was then welded into place and ground back.  Access to the lower few inches was impeded by the outer rocker, so this had to be unscrewed and removed. While it's off I'll be able to touch up some of the thinner areas of the paint and spots that have been scratched.


At the end of the day, with the outer rocker gone again, huge holes cut in the quarter and inner wheelhouse, it feels like I've gone backwards, despite the massive amount of work I'd done.  At least I know that after these bits are painted, it won't take long to get them in place and welded in, and I can then move onto the inner rocker and floor pan.



Whilst packing up, and with the tools already out, I spent a short time back on the gauges re-inforcement panel.  The holes were now cut out and a trial fit to the bezel was possible.



However, when I moved onto cutting the outer edges, it didn't go to plan.


I hadn't planned on it falling apart due to so little metal at the thin parts (and I've lost one corner - not sure how that happened)  I couldn't be bothered to try and sort it now, but will have to have a proper look another time.

[Jamieg285]

Oh, and a couple of asides...

Despite spending out on some ultra thin cutting discs, I was still getting rather large cuts in the metal. It turns out the bearings have gone on the grinder and the shaft is wobbling.  A replacement will have to be found quite soon.

And finally, always remember to wear your gloves when working around sharp metal. I forgot at one point and within 2 minutes had jabbed my thumb right onto a sharp rusty edge. Bloody painful and took ages to stop the bleed.  The next 30 minutes or so slowed me right down as I tried to carry on working one handed.

[art b]

you are doing some good stuff there ...

now wheres my rusty vw..

[Roadkill]

Quoting: Jamieg285

always remember to wear your gloves when working around sharp metal

Pfft, years spent man-handling sheet metal onto guillotines and presses soon hardens the tips of your fingers up !

I really can't work with gloves . . . which is totally stupid as I'm in charge of telling dozens of people to wear them.

[Jamieg285]

Torrential rain in the morning put paid to my original plan for Saturday, so instead I had a bit of a dig around and sort out in the garage.  The main aim was to find the steering parts from a project that I had started a couple of years ago, yet never finished.  I am going to replace/refurbish the intermediate steering shaft.  

I'd started on a 3rd gen piece that came free with a steering box, but on comparison both ends were shorter than the ones on my car, so they'll be scrapped. I'd got the original shaft off mine, and a spare bought in from the US.  Turns out it was a good thing I did get that spare, as the upper and lower shafts on mine had rusted solid and no amount of persuasion was going to separate them. The space shaft separated quite easily, and although quite pitted in places, it will do the job.

These were prep'd for paint, along with a few of the front end parts.  The rest of the day was spent painting these and the panels I've been working with, some of which would be fitted the next day.

[Jamieg285]

Today was the day. After checking that the paint was sufficiently dry, the aim on Sunday was to get the door jamb brace in and the outer rocker fitted and welded.

The brace was double checked for fit against the body and quarter patch and the paint from the areas where the two pieces would be welded. Holes were drilled for spot welding and then coated the bare metal with weld through primer.






Whilst the rocker was in place to help guide fitting the brace, I marked on it where the spot welds would be needed on the lower edge, figuring it will be easier to drill these with the panel off the car.


The brace was then welded in place.



The rocker was then removed and the spot holes drilled, with care taken to measure the ones on the underside going up to the kick panel support.


Again, any area that would be welded was stripped clean and weld through primer applied.  I've now learnt the lesson that it will be easier to work out where this needs doing and masking before painting, as it's tough stuff and takes ages to remove.

The rocker was now ready for fitting, so was offered back into place and screwed into place.





I needed to a final bit of prep, marking/drilling spot weld holes in the outer wheelhouse.


Then it was time to go at it with the welder. Initial results were quite poor, I think because I wasn't getting a good current to the panel, resulting in good welds on the body, but no penetration into the rocker. Once I'd got some decent welded joints, the rest went a lot better, but I have left myself with some rough welds to clean up. Still, it's on and it's solid.







I wasn't sure how I would deal with the outer rocker, but I worked it out and it's gone OK.  I have even less knowledge on how to do the next job - the inner rocker/passenger floor/torque box, and I have no idea where to start with it. I'll guess I'll just have to dive in and see what happens.

[Jamieg285]

A short stint yesterday, so made a start on the rear floor pan passenger side.  My research has helped me work out that I need to remove the floor pan first, then the torque box and finally the inner rocker, and then re-assemble in reverse order.  One of the first things I need to do is fit a cross brace connected to the spring pockets and body to provide a reference location when fitting the new torque boxes. In order to do this I need to remove the SFCs, but that was a job more involved that I had time for, so left it for next time.

Instead I started doing some of the basics inside the car, cleaning out all of the dust and crap that had accumulated over the years and recent weeks, making it easier to see what I was working with.


With a small wire brush I started to locate some of the spot welds.


It became clear that some things would need to be removed, specifically a wire guide near the inner wheel house and the rear seat buns bracket that I fitted for the 4th gen seats.  The latter I may get away with not removing, but might be able to cut some of it out and weld it back later. Either way, I took some reference measurements for later.



I wasn't finding as many welds as I was expecting, so I had the bright idea of using the new panel to work out where the spot welds might be.  Here it is layed in place and some rough markings added to the floor.


One thing this exercise has highlighted is a problem with the location of the seat belt bolt hole.  It's not the best picture, so I've added some arrows showing the current bolt location and the new one being about 3 inches too far back. Annoying, but not too difficult to cut out and re-locate.


That was it for the day. I might get a bit more time tonight, but again it won't be long.

[Jamieg285]

A bit late with this update, this stint was from Thurs and Fri evening last week. I was away for the weekend so didn't have time for the updates or any more work on the car.

Thurs saw my biggest 'DOH' and face palm moment so far.  Thankfully it wasn't too serious and could have been worse.  Pressing on I'd decided that the best thing to do next was take the SFCs out, so that they were out of the way when working on the floor.  You may also remember that the drivers side was blocking the last bolt on the spring pocket.

I spent about 30 mins (seemed longer) very carefully cutting along the seam of the SFC to the rear frame rail, taking care not to cut too deeply into either side, but only cutting the weld.  


About 1 inch from the end the disc snagged and disintegrated, and also jammed the grinder, which then took another 30 mins, 2 bent tools and some lateral thinking to get the broken disc off.  Neither of these incidents were the issue though.  Later that evening, it occurred to me that after the last lot of research I'd realised that the torque boxes would have to be removed upwards, not downwards, in which case the SFCs weren't in the way and didn't need to be removed at all. On another inspection, I could see that the only cut on the SFC that would be required was a fairly short strip on the outer edge, the only spot where the SFC and torque box actually meet.


Having decided that the SFCs would stay, I set about getting that last spring bolt out.  It was very close, the socket almost fits, but not enough to get proper purchase on the nut


I was prepared to cut the SFC there if required, but started off with just a bit of surface grinding.  Taking the rusted surface off alone was almost sufficient, and just a little more (taking care not to grind the bolt) was good and the socket went on and the bolt came out (again without breaking the cage nut!)


And that was the drivers spring out



Before going any further with the cutting of the floor, I wanted to get a brace in place to assist with the location of the torque boxes. I'd been given advice about using the spring pockets and some bar to do this, so I set about getting these off the springs.  Before doing this, I decided to remove the remaining shackle bolts and bushes from the rear ends.  Boy was that tough.  I got seriously hot and bothered, thought I'd screwed my ball joint press on a couple of occasions, getting so fed up that I didn't take any pictures (sorry).  Eventually though, I did get them out and was able to switch to the other end of the spring.  

The bolts were severely rusted, so I hit them with some generous amounts of rust penetration fluid.  Despite this, they aren't budging.  It didn't help that the spring isn't being held and flaps about as I try to exert force on the wrench.  All it seems to be doing is trying to bend the spring.  I eventually gave up, packed up in a huff to think about how to go at it differently next time.

First off will be the rattle gun (I keep forgetting about this useful tool) and if that doesn't work I will have to cut them off, but try to work out how to do it so that the springs don't get ruined and cannot be re-used.

[Jamieg285]

Another mini update, where the amount of words probably exceeds the amount of progress made

I attacked the spring pockets with the electric impact wrench, which I now rate as one of my best value for money tools. This has got me out of a few tight spots now.

Even then it wasn't easy, but eventually the nuts did start moving and spun free. I used the tool on the bolt too, to free it from the bushing sleeve and they quickly rotated out and the springs were finally fully stripped down.


I don't think I'll be reusing this one...



With the pockets off, it highlights the offset on the front spring eye.  I'm considering trying to correct these, making them even or possibly offset by matching amounts left to right.



Next I bolted the bare pockets back onto the car and started to make up some brackets to join then to the body to use for alignment later.  Didn't get that far really.

[Jamieg285]

The slow progress of late was getting to me, so I took the afternoon off work on Monday, and here is a better update.

Target for today was to get the passenger side torque box out, or get as far as I could in the time I had. You'll have seen in a previous post that I had already started to clean up the floor pan to find the spot welds and started cutting some of them out. I'd stopped there, wanting to fit a locating bracket for the spring pocket, before anything shifted.  The original idea was a long bracket across the car, linking both pockets together and to the body.  With the decision that the SFC would remain, I changed the plan and made a small bracket that was welded to the spring pocket, then bolted with 2 screws to the SFC. The 2 pieces that have screws were fitted to the SFC, then welded to the other part of the bracket.


Once this was done, I subsequently removed the pocket and moved it out of harms way, before going back to attack the floor pan. A few more spots were drilled out so that I could start to peel the pan up from the rear edge.


I didn't want to remove too much of the pan, only what is necessary at this stage (more may come out later).  I wanted to add a cut just outside the rear frame rail, so went underneath with a drill and made a few guide holes.


Back in the cab I highlighted these and played dot-to-dot.  The 4th gen seat bracket was in the way as there were spot welds directly under it, in the original seat mounting bracket. Rather than remove it, I sliced the outer edge off, just enough to be able to get the drill next to it. I may or may not re-attach it later.



All the spots along this line were then cut out, the seat bracket bent up and a quick slice with the angle grinder from the back of the pan to just past the front of the torque box, then across towards the inner rocker. As the inner rocker would be coming out as well, I saved time by cutting into this too, rather than trying to seperate it from the floor.




With the pan now cut, I was able to start peeling it up and getting access to the torque box below.


I only cut the floor pan where it was in the way of the welds joining the torque box to the rear frame. There was no need to fully separate the floor from the torque box, again saving time. It wasn't long before most of the torque box was visible. A quick cleanup showed me 3 spots along the bottom, going down into the rail.


With these dispensed, I sensed I was getting close (wrong!) I now cut the weld that joined the torque box to the SFC. It was tricky due to the limited space, but I thought it went OK.

I was now expecting to be able to lift the whole thing out, but it still wouldn't budge, and was still firmly attached.  A quick look on the drivers side donor showed me that there were some more spots on the inner side, which coudln't be drilled out from the top. I had to crawl underneath and clean off the side of the rail. I know there were at least 3, maybe 4 there, but I was only able to find 2. These were very difficult to drill out, partially due to the proximity to the floor and also it was hard to get decent pressue on the drill from underneath.


With those two cut I went back up top and started hitting with the spot weld chisel to separate the two pieces and try to find the missing welds. Thankfully there was only one, and it broke away and didn't need drilling.  


With those gone, I had to be there - but no.  It was still firmly stuck, so I started pounding from all angles, bending and forcing things to try and find out where it was sticking.  Eventually, 2 more spots revealed themselves, on the lower edge going down.


That had to be it - right?  Yes and no, that was the last of the spot welds, but the cut weld underneath wasn't fully cut.  I had to prise the metal up from the other side, to get it at a suitable angle to finally cut all the way through, and finally it was loose, and with a bit of a wiggle, out.



Timing for the day was almost spot on, but not quite enough. I didn't have time to clean up the spot welds, but I did give the new torque box a quick trial fit. It didn't go straight in, but will only need the spot welds cleaning and a bit of tweaking.


The next job will be to continue removing the rest of the inner rocker. Wish me luck...

[Jamieg285]

The weekend was supposed to be a big one, with lots of time on the car. The caveat was I had to share a bit of time so the wife could do her things.  The way it turned out was as bad as it could get. The sun shined bright when I was stuck indoors, and rained when it was my time to get busy. In total I spent 2 hours outside, of which a third was sheltering from the rain, a third preparing/packing away, so I got less than an hour done.  I was pretty depressed on Sunday evening with so little progress to show from a potentially great weekend.

Thankfully, things were a lot better yesterday.  I took another afternoon off work and really got stuck in, making up for the lack of work on the previous two days. In the 5 hours I put in I was able to fully remove the inner rocker, passenger footwell (almost) and start trial fitting the new panel and torque box.  Here's how I got there...

I'd made life for myself more difficult than it should have been by not trying to deal with the floor pan to inner rocker spot welds when the outer rocker was off and access was good.  I didn't fancy trying to use the drill on them from underneath the car, so decided to just split them apart by pounding away with the hammer and chisel. First up was clearing off all of the seam sealer so that I could see where I was working. This also revealed more trauma in the passenger footwell.



I then started from the rear working forwards with the chisel. The back half was fairly easy as the metal was quite thin here (I will probably extend the rear pan patch forward to replace this)


As with the outer rocker, I made the decision early on to section the panel as I went to make it easier to see and manipulate the panel as I went.



That was the extent of progress over the weekend. You can see why it was a disappointment.

The next day things started to get tougher. I was moving away from the rusted section into the solid metal and where the seat braces came into the equation. These were much harder to separate, and initially I skipped over them, considering cutting around them instead. Brute force and ignorance got the better of me though, and I did go back and pound away.


As I got further forward, it became clear that the solid floor was making it harder to separate the panels as there was no give on either side. I paused with attack on the rocker and moved to the floor pan instead.  First off was separating the floor from the firewall/toe board.



With that seam apart, two quick cuts around the worst of the rust, some wriggling to break the rusted edge and there was a large hole.



The toe board also extended over to the rocker, so I cut/peeled the worst of this away too, revealing the front end of the rocker panel.



There was some seam welding along the top edge of the rocker panel which needed grinding away, and then some small spot welds where the panel sits flush to the kick panel. These were too close to the curve of the panel to get the drill into, so I had to chisel down to them, also using the grinder on the face to thin the metal a bit. Inch by inch I was able to move forward, peeling the panel out as I went.


There were a few akward spot welds underneath on the lower edge, although some of the akwardness was from where the axle stand was close by, restricting access. Some I was able to get with the chisel, some the spot weld cutter and some an cutting disc.


I was expecting a run of spot welds around the top and front edge, but was relieved when I found there wasn't and the panel was now free. A bit of wiggling was required, but eventually it fell out.


A quick bit of cleanup with the grinder to get rid of the spot welds and chunks left after chiseling and I was able to go for a trial fit of the new rocker. It took a bit of massaging, but did slide in OK once I got the angle right.


On closer inspection, I found a tab on the panel that would have to be removed. Either that or I would have to start separating the kick panel from the firewall, and I wasn't going there!



This was quickly sliced off and the panel re-fitted, fitting really well. A bit of massaging will be required to get everying lined up for welding, but it's not far off. I also dropped the torque box in to see how that went, and it looked good too.


I was going to fit the spring pocket to the torque box to see if it needed re-aligning, but ran into a problem. Of the 3 holes where you'd put the bolt clips, only 1 has been drilled.  I guess that will be the first job next time.

[Jamieg285]

Three small crappy updates, combined to make one mediocre one.

I had two mornings to work on the car at the weekend. The weather forecast for the day wasn't good, so I opted to take on a job that I could do in the shelter of the garage if the rain came.  I figured a good task would be to take the replacement rear floor patch and separate off the redundant bits, namely the sections of frame rail, torque box and inner rocker.

I battled with it for more than 3 hours, making a real mess of the side seam, braking all bar one of my remaining spot weld cutters in the process :-(  Finally though, it was all split apart, leaving just the floor pan section.


The edge isn't looking too hot, but at least it won't be too tricky to repair.



The next day was better weather, but less time available.  I wanted to get the torque box location sorted so that I could move onto the floor pan.  Things didn't start well, with the bracket made to hold the spring pocket in place seperating and loosing the location reference.  I did my best to repair it, but I'm not convinced it went back in exactly the same place.  Either way, I found there was very little wiggle room for the torque box to go, so it will go where it fits regardless.  I lined it up against the spring pocket and marked the mounting holes for drilling.  Quickly drilled them out and went to fit the spring clips, only to find they didn't line up with the holes. I had no option other than to mark the locations of the spring clip holes (which were close to the existing holes, but not close enough, and then cut them out with a dremel.  

I didn't get any pictures that day, and to be fair, there wasn't much visual progress, although I did achieve the aim of being ready to look at the floor pan next.


Yesterday I had a free couple of hours, so dug the floor pan out of the garage. The first thing I did was use the edge to make a template to use to repair the other side.


Then I carefully moved it inside the car to get an idea of the fit.  Doesn't look too bad, it's just a shame that I can't fit it in in one piece and will be sectioning it out.



With it laid in place, I marked the current gaps from the underside.


This floor pan is only available for the early 70's models, here I can see a big differnce in the profile at the front.  I think I will extend the cut further into the transtunnel, where the profiles will match, then it's just the rear edge that I will need to make fit.



At this point, I'm about 1/2 hour in and the sun is still shining. There's a couple of small spots of rain and the sky is darkening a little.  I figure it's only light and will soon pass.

10 minutes later, how wrong could I be:




I cowered in the garage for half an hour, waiting for it to pass, but it never did, so gave up I got soaked clearing up.

[Roadkill]

Fair play for keeping going . . . I think I would've run a mile by now !

[FUBAR]

Quoting: Roadkill

Fair play for keeping going . . . I think I would've run a mile by now !

Ultimate admiration for you Jamie, your dedication to sorting the Camaro is Epic,,, truly Epic.

When this is finished and you're driving your Camaro again the smile on your face is going to hurt it'll be so huge.

[Jamieg285]

I had a full day to work on the car this Sunday, so carried on with the floor pan work. There were some clear differences with the original and replacement floor pans, so the first task was to work out exactly what they were and decide how to deal with them.



The conclusion was that the differences are all between the toe-board and the rear most seat mounting points. The rear section is the same and wouldn't cause any problems, but there is a clear profile difference that will need to be dealt with. The spacing left-right of the seat bolts is different and it looks like the cross brace would be different too.  It was this that made me conclude to not try to fit the whole panel, but to cut front and rear sections.

Before going any further, I extended the cuts to the existing floor. The rear was extended along the rocker edge, to get rid of some of the thinner rusted areas at the joint.


The front was widened to blend into the trans tunnel, where the new and old panel would be the same profile. I am expecting to have to cut some more up front, but for now I am concentrating on the rear.


With that done, and some more careful marking from the underside I took the plunge and split the new panel into 3.  



I wonder if there is a market for unwanted middle sections?


Despite the extra width on the front hole, the panel still isn't dropping any further into place yet.  Looking closer, it looks like the the profile difference on the outside is the problem now.  I will deal with that later.



The first rough cut of the rear panel wasn't too bad and only needed a little bit of trimming to get spot on. It didn't look like anywhere was cut too short :-) With it all trimmed, I offered up all of the pieces to see what the overall fit would be.


With all that sorted, the last thing I wanted to do before prep for welding was to deal with a little bit of rust on the rear panel behind the rear seat, and also get inside the frame rail to treat and paint it whilst it was accessible.  A bit more digging found a bit more rust, so I cut this out and across the top of the frame rail.


The section that needed replacing looked quite complex with different curves and a lip to meet the floor pan.  I tried to save myself some work by using a section from the unused floor pan that already had some curves on it.


It wasn't off, but needed quite a lot of persuassion to get it to a point where I was happy with it.



That's all the metal work prep for the rear section now, so it was onto getting ready to weld. First step here was to fit all of the pieces in place and mark where they needed to be welded, so that I could drill spot holes were required and also not paint them in that area. Here are the pieces after I drilled the holes, note I have also relocated the hole where the rear seat belt nut would fit.


I ran out of time to go any further.  I need to mark the areas to be welded on the inner rocker so that I can strip the primer and replace it with weld-through primer. I also need to prep the edges of the original floor pan.

[art b]

nice work ...

your gonna be good at welding after all this

[Jamieg285]

I'm certainly getting better with my hammer and chisel technique.  

Not done too much welding on it yet, but that will soon change...

[Jamieg285]

Hi All. I had a bit of an enforced break, due to family holidays. I was getting very frustrated in not being able to get out and do some work, especially with the good weather.   I have managed to get a couple of evenings in, so here is another combined update...

With the rear section all but done I had to turn my attention to the front, as I can't start welding in until the whole side is ready as they all internconnect. I also found that I couldn't get the front section of the floor pan in with the inner rocker in place, so this has to go in first.  

Having drilled the spot weld holes in the side of the floor pan, I tried to do the same with sections still attached to the car. Access was all but impossible, and bearing in mind the condition isn't A1, I decided to cut the full side section out and have a completely new edge to weld with.


First job here was to check the two pans for differences. There were the same along the edge, to about 3 inches in from the side, so I decided to cut midway into this section.


As with everything else, I hit the paint with the wire brush to find the spot welds, cut them out and then peeled the metal up, working from the rear to the front where the floor had been removed.



Then it was a simple job of cutting the matching piece from the centre section of the floor pan and gringing it until it fitted as required. You will note that it's about 6 inches too short. This is because the front section has only been roughly cut so far, with plenty of overlap to assist in the final fit. Once I've dealt with that, the remains can be used to fill this hole, or I can easily fab it up if required.


With the side sorted it was time to concentrate on the passenger footwell. First job was to extend the cuts to get rid of all the rusted bits.


The brace underneath had been attacked quite badly. Most of it was surface rust, but there was a really rough section that had a hole in, so this was cut out and a replacement cut to fit.



Once happy that no more metal was coming out I started to mark/cut the new pan to match the hole.



With the front and sides of this section sorted, it was on to the trickier job of matching the rear.  The profiles of the early and late pans are quite different, with high and low differences, but to make it more difficult the transition is halfway across the floor, not from edge to edge. In this pic you can see the left part matches OK, but the right side drops about an inch, about 8 inches from the side.


Looking underneath, you can see that the right side is way too high and needs to drop.


If I line the lower side of the pan up, you can then see that the end of the pan is too low.


It was clear that it would need some sort of step, which fortunately was already in the new pan, just in the wrong place. I found that using this offcut and offering it into place, it was just the right size.


The problem though was neither the main pan or the step piece were good to go as they were, and both needed plenty of 'help' to get them to line up and correctly meet with each other and the existing floor section. Here it is roughly shaped. I will weld the step patch to the main patch before final welding into the car, and will do the final massaging into shape at that time when things are being held solidly.



Apart from filling that small gap down the side, the next jobs will be to get everthing ready for welding. Some final grinding and shaping of edges, cleaning the edges (not looking forward to the underside!), and primering anything that won't be accessible after welding, then I'll be good to go. Hopefully, within the next 2 weeks the passenger side floor will be completed (apart from painting)

[Jamieg285]

A bit late with an update from Sunday, where I had a free afternoon to get on with things.

With the floor pan patches roughly cut to shape, it was time to concentrate on getting everything ready for welding, and it turns out there is an awful lot to consider. With the interconnecting nature of the all the panels, I need to make sure every spot weld hole is drilled and all surfaces are stripped on all panels where they meet. If I miss one and don't spot it until after the welding has started it will be almost impossible to sort out then, so it has to be right now.

There are a few areas that I won't have access to paint once the panels are in, specifically the front and rear brace sections. These I want to coat with the epoxy primer now, so these were the first areas to be addressed.

The front brace under the toe board needed repairing, so the first job was to lift and move the frame out of the way so that I had good access to both sides.



Next was cleaning the underseal off the underside in the area of the weld, but I couldn't help but start roughly stripping the crud of a wider area. I'm not lookin forward to when I've got to do this properly so that I can primer the underside.



The small patch was very simple to weld, and I was pretty pleased with how the weld went. Not perfect yet, but a lot better than my first stabs usually go. Some good penetration and only needing a little bit of filling from the backside.



A bit of extra welding and then grinding back and I'm happy.


While the welder was out, I started attaching the transition patch into the front section.





With this patch welded in place, I'm not sure that I've made the patch deep enough and there may be a gap to be filled between it and the original floor.  I've held off making the last side section, as mentioned in the previous post, as I can make this an L-shaped piece to fill any gap if required.

That was all the welding done for the day, the rest was drilling and grinding panels.



I also discovered that the inner rocker wouldn't go in with the front floor pan in, and it wouldn't go in the other way around either.  I had to bend the front of the floor section back a bit so that it cleared. I checked and I will be able to bend it back to where it needs to be from the underneath, once all the panels are in place and partially welded.

Despite a good few hours work being done, there is STILL more prep work to be done before I can start welding it all in.  I'm hoping for an evening or two this week to get the patches of primer done, final spot weld holes cut and weldig areas cleaned up.  I've got the full weekend to myself this weekend, and I want the passenger side all welded and as close to ready for primer as possible.

[art b]

looking good with the new floor in place....

new panels why are they so difficult to make fit ..