Dual Colour "Switchback" LEDs

[FUBAR]

Does anyone know if these are made in White / Red as I want to use them for Reversing / Rear Fog Lights on the IROC so I can have both Reversing lights and 2 rear fog lights. :cool:  these fit a standard 1157 dual filament (like a Rear / Brake light fitting)

I've looked but can't find them as an 1157, I can only find these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3157-3457-3057-60SMD-LED-Red-White-Turn-Signal-Stop-Rear-Switchback-Light-Lamp-/371205102967?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item566d8c5d77

Also if these are made in Red / Amber could you keep red rear lights on older cars and still have amber indicators? :chiny:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dual-color-Switchback-LED-Turn-Signal-Parking-Light-Bulbs-1157-134-1016-1034-66-/151150417878?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

[Jamieg285]

You might have better luck looking for pigtail adapters, going from your 1157 to whatever the bulb you want is. I have seen 1157 plug to wire adapter, you just need to find the socket for the new bulb and wire them together.

[FUBAR]

Found them!

1/2 way down this page, not cheap though $25 each for 60 LED and $15 for 48 LED!!
http://www.superbrightbulbs.com/switchback.html

Flashers/ equalisers etc (including auto-adjusting ones for mixing LEDs and normal Bulbs)
http://www.superbrightbulbs.com/equalizers.htm

[Roadkill]

Hmm, Fog lights.

That's a good idea.  I will watch with interest.   :up:

[Jamieg285]

Me too, they look cool.

I could use them for front indicators and the reverse/fog light.

[FUBAR]

Question for anyone who knows about switches / Relays etc (Chris / Steve?)

Thinking about how to wire up these dual colour bulbs before I buy them I wanted to ensure than the Reverse Lights and the fog lights cannot both be on at the same time.

Each type of light needs to work independently but the reverse lights need to have priority, so i.e. if you have the rear fogs on and put the car in reverse it will turn the fogs off while you're backing up and automatically turn them back on again when you return the car to drive.

I think I can do this with a 4 pin "NC" type Relay (shown below) with a diode in it for component safety:

http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/relay-guide.html

I think with this being "NC" (Which I assume means Normally Closed and the current breaks the secondary circuit) it will allow the reversing lights +12v current to pass from Pin 86 to 85 which would break the fog light circuit when they're on, but when the Reverse lights are off the Fog light +12v current would pass from Pin 87 to 30 unimpeded?

Have I got this right?

Edit: From further reading would using a 5 pin Change over relay also work?


wiring the reversing lights again through Pins 86/85 and wire the fogs through 87a and 30... then not using Pin 87?

[FUBAR]

Anyone know on the Relay front, I'm assuming the reversing lights will still work fine while also switching the relay?

[FUBAR]

Today 2x 60 LED Bulbs (30 per colour), 5-pin diode relay + wiring harness and brand new bulb-holders / sockets from Rockauto have all been ordered... Mini project has commenced.

[ianjpage]

Looking at what you got in terms of relays, i think you almost got it, what i'd do is have the reverse lights +ve feed going to the lights so i powers them, but also take a feed from this +ve to the relay so that when it powers on, it activates the relay, then breaks the 87->30 connection which would be the feed for the fog lights, that way reverse go on, breaks link, turns off fog's....

HTH

[FUBAR]

Ok I've done some testing with these today and discovered that the separate relay is not required because the bulbs have one already built in so that only one colour activates at any given time.  Also when they say 48x or 60x LEDS they mean of EACH colour, each one does both so they're brighter than I was expecting which is great for the fogs and not a bad thing for the reverse light purposes.

But back to the colour switching...
What I wanted to do was for the White light to have power of Veto over the red, so that if the fogs were on and you put the car in reverse the white light would take over for a short period.  However these are not made that way.  The Red Fog light has Power over the White reverse light, meaning if I put the rear fogs on I have no reverse lights.

Now, I can't see this actually being a problem in normal use, even for a regular car but especially for the IROC which doesn't see much bad weather driving (especially in reverse), but I was wondering if it would be an issue for legalities. :pass:

Anyone know?

I've also had to modify the bulb holder slightly to make it fit (I cut the new holder @ £3 each instead of changing my light housing @ £150 each), its a simple change with some careful use of a modelling knife and still allows 3 locating tabs to grip the holder, just one of them is quite small now.  Job done

[Roadkill]

In the "real world" I don't think it'll be an issue . . . I'd be surprised if your MoT'er tests the reverse lights while the fogs are on  . . . .

***However***

See note (1.3) /Method of Inspection/ (2) (f) here :

http://www.ukmot.com/mot%20manual/index.asp?MOT_Section=Rear%20Fog%20Lamps&MOT_Number=1.3

"is not adversely affected by the operation of any other lamp"

So, technically, yes, illegal.

[FUBAR]

Cheers for the link Dean, that is a very helpful page but having read it i think it will actually be fine,

The MOT requires the Rear fogs to Not be adversly affected by the operation of another lamp as you stated, i've checked just now and the reversing lights are not actually part of the UK MOT at all.

With the Rear Fog lights having Power of veto over the white reversing lights the Fogs would not be affected when the car was put into reverse so i believe would be a pass?.  The reversing lights would work at all other times but as it seems they're not part of the MOT this also seems ok.

[Roadkill]

and the reversing lights are not actually part of the UK MOT at all

BUT, you'll probably find that if they're installed, they have to work properly (in the same way that having a spare tyre isn't a requirement, but if you have one it must be road-legal)

Regardless of whether reversing lights are a requirement, I think the "any other lamp" part is left purposely vague to cover everything.

[FUBAR]

hmm good point. i'll do some more checking

[FUBAR]

After having discussed this with a pub friend who is an MOT tester while using the link dean provided above:

Section:
2. A mandatory rear fog lamp: f. adversely affected by the operation of any other lamp.

Because the Rear fog lamp will operate normally in all circumstances that it is required to (due to Red having power of veto over white) and due to reversing lights not being a tested part of the UK MOT the setup that I have suggested on the IROC is suitable to pass an MOT test.
If the bulbs were to operate the way I originally wanted, (with white having veto power over red) this would technically be a failable scenario, however the chances of the fog lights being tested while the car was in reverse are very, very slim and even then he didn't feel that it would actually be considered as a problem anyway.

I'll be installing the upgraded dual-purpose lights this weekend. :cool:

[Roadkill]

Groovy, you can do mine next.  :P

[FUBAR]

Got these fitted now, all works fine, there is a video but its uploading so will take for ever before I can post it.

So, the 1st thing you need to do is buy the bulbs from the site linked above and 2 brand new 1157 Bulb holders from Rockauto for about £3.50 ish each, then modify them so that they will fit in the reversing light section of the rear light clusters which has the locking tabs in a slightly different place.  Thankfully GM didn't vary them too much, so as you can see from the Pic below you still get a small 3rd tab left to help it stay in place:


Then put something down to protect the rear bumper, you also have to remove the rear Licence plate bracket so that you can pull the wiring loom above the bumper cover so you can get the new wires in there properly:


and wire in the new lights: (This is the old 1156 stock holder you can see there)


It was great to see that when the fog light conversion was originally done that the +12v feed for the old reversing light was just cut off & stuffed in the loom bare... :rtfm: (green wire above)

This is what it looks like when its finished:

[art b]

Good work... :funky: :funky: :funky:

[Jamieg285]

Looking good - do you have part numbers for the 1157 holders?

[FUBAR]

Looking good - do you have part numbers for the 1157 holders?

On Rockauto they are "DORMAN Part # 85832  {#12003759} 3-Wire 90 Deg. Front & Rear"
It says they fit Chevrolet 1976-1999 :cool:

On The Video Front, I can't get it to upload to Photo-fuckit, its failed 3 times, so I'm trying to add it to youtube

[FUBAR]

Video now added :up:

[ianjpage]

looks good, Uber bright as well!!!!

[Roadkill]

Pimpin'

[Jamieg285]

Just seen the video - looks really good.

Are the brake/indicators still normal candescant bulbs, or are they LED too?

[FUBAR]

Just seen the video - looks really good.

Are the brake/indicators still normal candescant bulbs, or are they LED too?

Everything apart from the Indicators and headlights is now LED on the IROC, including all the internal lighting as well.  Indicators haven;t been changed because I don't know anything about what resistors to add etc, also because the "Digitails" progressive ones are still lingering in the back of my mind.  The side markers also flash alternately to the front & rear indicators so there is 2 circuits in there somewhere complicating things.

Headights haven't been done because last time i looked the technology for retro-fit applications was crap but that was a little while ago now.