Leaving on a flatbed...

[HardRockCamaro]

...Don't know when it will go again...



Well the STS decided to grind to a halt yesterday evening.
Engine just cut out and refused to start agian (would crank but no joy).

The RAC man took one look at it, gulped and decided he probably couldn't do anything.  Plugging in his all singing all dancing european laptop didn't please the Cadillac at all, she decided she was being "interfered with" decided a theft attempt was being made and told his engine diagnostics software to take a running jump...

So 4 hours later she came home on a flatbed...  

Preliminary investigations by me today indicate a fuel pump failure.
The fuse is fine, I swapped the relay over with another but there is still no fuel in the injector rail (tried a gauge on the rail and it read zero, and then tried just pressing the valve in with the tip of a screwdriver but no fuel shot out as it should have if it was in there at 45psi).

Gonna put a multimeter over the fuel pump tomorrow to see if it's receiving a signal, and if so will pull it and put a battery across it while it's out of the car to see if that works.  If not it'll be a new pump.

Plus side:  98/99 on STS's apparentley have an access panel in the trunk so you can get to the fuel pump on the top of the tank so no need to drop the tank and whatnot to replace it as that was a sod of a job.

Down side:  It's 375+vat from Bl**dy Muppets.  


So I need to be really sure it's the pump!!!

[Giblets]

Hmmmm deja vu there old boy.

Sorry to hear that though. As you know I went for the fuel pump job anyway suspecting it would go one day anyway.

So the IROC is gonna see more use now I guess?

[HardRockCamaro]

Well, in theory.
Problem is the Caddy has to be parked in front of the garage in a narrow little place full of other cars.  Pushing it around on my own is not an option (you wouldn't believe how much it weighs) so unless someone helps me it's no so easy.
So basically I need to get the Caddy going again so asoon as possible.
Annoyingly next week I go on holiday to the USA and could have brought back a fuel pump, they cost about £175 over there.  But I really need ot use the car this weekend (in fact I need to use it for work related trips at the moment so it's real bad timing).
I'll have to bite the bullet and order as pump tomorrow I suppose...

[philoldsmobile]

ouch, sucky.. bad news there dude.  

[philoldsmobile]

and just to elaborate..... (to the tune of leaving on a jet plane by John denver)

all my valves are stuck
it just wont go
im stranded here,
gonna cost me dogh..
i hate to call the tow truck but its died...

but the compouters broken
the brakes are worn
this damned car has become my thorn
already the towtruck is within sight

so charge me and horrify me
dont forget the V.A.T.
hold me while i part with loads of dogh.

i'm leaving on a flat bed
dont know if it will run again
oh babe, i need a tow.........

there's so many times its let me down
so many times its gone down
i tell you now this bills gonna sting...

i've simply do not know
whats left to do
everything i change
i think will do'
if you dont run now, i'm gonna trade you in....

[HardRockCamaro]

Hehe!!!

[Pod]

Could you not just pick up another Orion or something similar for a couple of hundred quick to get you mobile again, then sell or dump it once the STS is fixed?

[philoldsmobile]

lada niva..... the ultimate urban assault vehicle

[ianjpage]

ahh sorry to hear it not working mate....

[rebeltrucker]

Cant you find out the physical size of the pump and match it up with summat else? Thats all we do...cause original yank stuff is prohibitively expensive. Peugeot 306 2.0i ones fit 4th gen maros a treat btw

[Titsy]

Quoting: rebeltrucker

Peugeot 306 2.0i ones fit 4th gen maros a treat btw

But does it deliver enough fuel at full chat, or is the engine starved and runs dangerously lean?

[philoldsmobile]

4th gens (and most other modern cars) simply wont run that lean, if its so lean its dangerous, the ECU will go into limp home, both the knock sensor and the o2 sensor would throw codes.

most fuel systems actualy have flow ratings way over the absolute maximum the system needs, hence the reason for the flow and return that fuel injection often has..

[philoldsmobile]

for what its worth though, i'd still rather have the proper part in it....

[rebeltrucker]

Quoting: Titsy

But does it deliver enough fuel at full chat, or is the engine starved and runs dangerously lean?

Yup...certainly does. Well..it does in a 6 anyway. Never tried  in an 8.
We've actually been doing it for a few years with various motors. Ashleyastros  350ci Astro has a BMW pump in it, his firebird has a Merc one.

Never had a problem yet

[Finlay]

You should be able to bang an inline pump in there and leave the old pump in the tank

Its a fix Ive seen done before.

[rebeltrucker]

We tried that on an Astro......it worked fine for a while until the inline one finally gave up the ghost through struggling to draw fuel through the original pump.

[HardRockCamaro]

Right, I did some more investigating today.

I fitted a brand new higher power battery (removing the 320CCA(!) one and replacing it with a 650CCA one).

I then lifted all the boot carpet out and opened up the access hatch to the fuel pump.


When the key is turned to ignition various relays can be heard clicking, one of which clicks off again after about 2 seconds.
I'm pretty sure this is the fuel pump relay.

Attaching a multimeter to the fuel pump (there are 2 connectors on top of this thing, one being the sender, one being the fuel pump, I assume the pump one has the thicker wires as they need to carry 20Amps) it receives a 12Volt signal on those for about 2 seconds or so (ie when that relay clicks on and off) but the pump doesn't do anything.

So I assume that the fuel pump should activate and prime the injector rail it's getting 12 volts.

I'm told there is no other "wake-up" signal to it so that should work.


The 98 on STS uses an all in one module that is the fuel pump and sender unit combined.  It comes in at £450 from Bauer Millet.
gmpartsdirect wnat only £175 delivered to a USA address but they won't take a UK credit card and I don't really have the time to spare getting it delivered somewhere in the USA and then getting it forwarded to me.
I want to get hold of it for this weekend so that if the car still doesn't work (or has any other problems) I can get it taken on a flatbed to someone who can work on these things while I'm away on holiday for 2 weeks.

I won't be putting in any other pump unless it's actually the same one with a different part number.  I prefer putting the right part in as opposed to doing a heath robinson affair.  Obviously, in theory, if another pump fits the hole and can provide the same flow rate at xx psi and so on and so forth then it doesn't matter.  But I don't have the time or inclination for that sort of research.
On the plus side, this means that when I sell a car you're getting one that has been maintained regardless of cost!

[Rocky]

Do you want me to see if i can get one through my supplier will take about a week though

[HardRockCamaro]

I really want to get the car working for this weekend, I have stuff planned.
If BM can get me one here in time (I'm gonna call them this morning) I'll get it from them, if not I'll let you know.
I really would like ot get it in the car by Wednesday at the latest so I can go on holiday knowing the car works (or not).

[55starchief]

Andy call geoff at astoria and ask him. He is a genuine GM dealer for american vehicles and parts Tel: 01604 899493 tell him that graeme at MKB gave you his number. He also has access to all GM service and diagnostic so might even know the reason the car has stopped. Oh and just for the record he actually wrote a review of that car that Cadillac UK used in promotion

[HardRockCamaro]

Just called him, he's gonna see if he can get one quickly (and obviously how much).  He says they do have the Tech 2 tool and so on that's needed so if it turns out replacing the pump doesn't help and I need to get it looked at they can if I can get it trailered to them.  However he can't guarantee that they can fix it becuase they're so complex and difficult to troubleshoot...


I also spoke to Stratstone Cadillac (the guys selling the current range of Cadillacs and Vettes) and they tell me (like BM) they have to get it from Germany.  They're gonna see how quick they can get one and to save a day of time I can collect it from their London showroom.  So unless they add silly margin on it I'll probably end up with one from them as in theory that's the quickest route as the all seem to have to get them from Germany and due to distance would have to get it, repack it and post it out to me adding at least a day.

[55starchief]

Quoting: HardRockCamaro

Just called him, he's gonna see if he can get one quickly (and obviously how much). He says they do have the Tech 2 tool and so on that's needed so if it turns out replacing the pump doesn't help and I need to get it looked at they can if I can get it trailered to them. However he can't guarantee that they can fix it becuase they're so complex and difficult to troubleshoot...

Geoff is a top notch guy with an unreal amount of knowledge not only on american but also english cars even some of the small production makes from the 30's etc he has also writen books on comma comercial vehicles

[HardRockCamaro]

I just ordered a fuel pump from Stratstone Cadillac in Reading.
They're getting it on a guaranteed 24hour delivery from Germany for me.
So I should have it tomorrow or maybe Friday if it doesn't come in until late.

Fingers crossed that's the problem as it's costing me £418...


Just spoke to Geoff and updated him (I promised that I would) so he's happy.  He said he could try and get one in from Detroit but it would be a nail biter if it would arrive in time for the weekend.

[55starchief]

As i said geoff is a genuine guy have known him about 10 years and he worked for my father for 5 years. Always worth kepping his number as he knows his stuff

[Rocky]

Checked today for you could have got it on the Belgium order for tomorrow but see your sorted now,Good luck with it.